Podcast Like a Motherf*cker with Emily McElwreath (& Cheryl Strayed!)

Podcast Bestie, the Podcast

Episode 10 Show Notes

Guest: Emily McElwreath, host of The Art Career podcast

Host: Courtney Kocak, Podcast Bestie founder

Hi Besties! Today’s guest is Emily McElwreath, host of The Art Career podcast, and Emily’s superpower is guest booking. Some of us feel like we need to work our way up to our dream guests, but not Emily. Starting season one of her podcast, she didn’t wait for permission to approach top-tier talent. She was hot out the gate with Laurie Simmons, Marilyn Minter, and other big names in the art world. She’s even managed to land Pulitzer Prize-winning art critic Jerry Saltz and one of my all-time favorite authors, Cheryl Strayed (which, to me, is like landing on the moon as far as podcast guest booking goes). So I invited Emily on Podcast Bestie to tell us about her guest book strategy, along with some tips for approaching a high-profile dream guest of your own.

Cheryl Strayed famously coined the mantra “Write Like a Motherf*cker” for her Dear Sugar column (which later became a book called Tiny Beautiful Things that I have gifted to no less than 20 people, and now it’s also a TV show on Hulu) — and that sentiment can be applied to any creative endeavor. So after Emily’s interview, you’ll get a pep talk from Cheryl herself, and I hope it inspires you to podcast like a motherf*cker. That is a pep talk we all need to hear sometimes.

If you missed the last episode, check out How to Leverage Blogging Strategies for Your Podcast with Danielle Desir Corbett.

Thanks to Michael Castañeda for mixing and mastering this episode. Follow him on Twitter and Instagram @plasticaudio.

And thank you to Matt Gilhooly for creating the social media assets for this episode. Follow him on Twitter @theliftshiftpod.

A big thanks to our BFFs for sponsoring this episode:

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TRANSCRIPT (This is a rough AI-generated transcript for immediate accessibility, please excuse any mistakes.)

[00:00:03] Speaker 1: Hey podcast besties. Welcome back to the show dedicated to making your podcast the best it can be. I'm Courtney Kozak, your BFF, and helping you grow and monetize your show. And we are doing something extra special today. Besties. I am introducing you to Emily McClary. She is the host of the Art Courier podcast, and this is what I love about Emily. Emily went for it in terms of guest booking. Season one of her podcast. She did not wait around for permission to work her way up to certain guests. Like, I feel like some of us feel like we need to do. She just booked and she booked hard. She was hot out the gate with her guest booking and she even got Cheryl Strayed on her podcast, which to me is like going to the moon as far as podcast guest booking goes. So for most of you, Cheryl needs no introduction. She is the renowned writer. She wrote Dear Sugar. She wrote Wild. Both of those books I have gifted to about 20 people each. And she coined the term right like a motherfucker, which to me can be applied to any creative field. I invited Emily on the show to tell us all about how she did it. And then we are going to get a pep talk from Sheryl herself on how to make our art like a motherfucker had a podcast like a motherfucker. And that is a pep talk we all need to hear sometimes. You know, I don't usually swear on this show, but I am making an exception for Sheryl and you guys. This is just so exciting. Let's get into it. [00:01:43][99.8]

[00:01:44] Speaker 2: Hi. My name is Emily McIlrath, and I am the host of the Art Career podcast. We just launched season three, and of course, it is available wherever you listen to your podcasts. [00:01:56][12.1]

[00:01:58] Speaker 1: So I'm excited to dive into a little bit about your story. I always ask everybody at the beginning, What's your podcasting origin story? So how did you get started? [00:02:07][9.1]

[00:02:07] Speaker 2: So my podcasting origin story, the Art Career podcast, launched a year ago this month. [00:02:15][7.2]

[00:02:16] Speaker 1: Congratulations. [00:02:16][0.0]

[00:02:17] Speaker 2: Thank you. We hit our year mark, which was a big deal. We just launched Season three. I had never even experimented in podcasting before. I listened to very few podcasts. Now I listen to all the podcasts. But what happened essentially is that after almost 20 years of being in the art industry, you know, I had discovered that I had built this really amazing community of people and. I got to a point where I was working one on one with so many artists, and I just I wanted to share that community with the public pretty much. You know, I'm fortunate enough to live in New York. I live between upstate New York and Brooklyn. And I've just yeah, I've just I'm very fortunate. I've built such a wonderful community of creatives. And so the first time I sat down for an interview is with Marilyn Minter. She tell us about Marilyn. [00:03:24][67.6]

[00:03:25] Speaker 1: I'm not familiar. [00:03:25][0.6]

[00:03:26] Speaker 2: So Marilyn Minter is an artist. She currently has a retrospective up in Manhattan right now. She's one of my favorite artists in the world. And I sat down with her and I had never interviewed anyone. I'd never interviewed anyone in my whole life. And Marilyn was gracious enough to say yes to being my first victim on the podcast. And it was just, you know, within 10 minutes, I not only knew that as corny as this sounds, that this is my calling to sit down and talk to people and connect to people. But it very much so surprised me because very quickly we got very intimate. Right. And it bypassed, you know, the physical art, it bypassed the industry, and it quickly turned into life and mental health and social activism and pain and sobriety and all these things, you know, And all of a sudden it was just that. And and I loved it so much. So that was a year ago. And yeah, here we are now. [00:04:46][79.6]

[00:04:46] Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah, that is one of the most beautiful things about podcasting. And it is an art in and of itself. You know, it's not cheesy. Audio storytelling can be so powerful. So tell me about a few of your other favorite episodes that you've done, favorite guests, favorite takeaways from these first couple seasons. [00:05:05][19.1]

[00:05:06] Speaker 2: Yeah. So I interviewed Laurie Simmons, who is another amazing artist outside of the art world. People may know her as Lena Dunham's mother. [00:05:17][10.8]

[00:05:18] Speaker 1: I was going to say, I thought I knew that name. And that's yeah, but. [00:05:21][3.0]

[00:05:22] Speaker 2: I don't like to say that. But outside of our industry, you know, that's how people are familiar with her sometimes. And she's become, I think, the beauty of this. And Courtney, I know you understand this is you don't know the person. You sit down, you interview them, and then a year later, they're like a good friend of yours, you know, I mean, I'm sure that happens to you all the time. And Laurie has been such a mentor to me. And she is I'm not sure how old Laurie is. She's young still, but she has had an enormous amount of experience in the industry. And so, you know, younger creatives really connected to what she had to share in terms of operating as a small business. When you're creative or when you're, you know, especially a fine artist. So Laurie Simmons was one of my favorite interviews. We launched Season three with Jerry Saltz, who's a very well-known art critic. And it was really fun. And it wasn't only because it was Jerry. Although I've come to love him very much, it was my first live interview I did. [00:06:39][77.2]

[00:06:39] Speaker 1: Oh, that's a totally different beast. [00:06:41][1.7]

[00:06:41] Speaker 2: I know. Oh, my God. And I was I was a wreck before it. You know, I was so nervous. And we partnered with NYU. And so that was very cool because I have a background in education. And so I was able to, you know, combine the two and we had a sold out. You know, there are about 200 people there at NYU and it was recorded. The recording is not as great as that's that's a whole nother thing. I'm learning the tech side very slowly and everyone's bearing with me. But yeah, that was that was a really exciting interview because I got to interact with, you know, my commute, my podcasting community more, obviously because it was live. [00:07:24][42.8]

[00:07:25] Speaker 1: Yeah. Hey, besties. I partnered with VO Pod as my season one sponsor for podcast Bestie, and it has exceeded my wildest expectations. It has helped me reach so many new listeners. We are now almost up to 40 k downloads and it's also helped me monetize the show. Last month I had my best month for advertising on podcast Bestie. And mobile definitely helped me get there. So Boebert is an effective, targeted way to promote your show. It's already trusted by industry giants like Condé Nast, Iheartmedia and the HubSpot Podcast Network, and that's because it works. But my pod isn't just for the big guys. My God, Boost is perfect for indie podcasters like us. It's actually been my favorite paid advertising experiment to date. I've used it on all my shows and you can try it for just $100. Plus, if you're a bestie, you get 10% off with the link in the episode description. So try it out and let me know what you think. So, okay. What's your approach to this guest booking? It sounds like you already know a lot of these people, but I mean, we're going to play besties a clip of your Cheryl Strayed interview, which that's a huge get. So tell us about how you land some of these amazing guests. [00:08:49][84.3]

[00:08:50] Speaker 2: Honestly, Courtney, that is the only thing I have to show because I'm clueless when it comes to everything else. But I have landed every single one of these interviews on my own. I don't have someone working for me that reaches out to the people. But that's essentially why I start, because I was like, Wait a second, I have all of these amazing people in my life in my corner. How can I share them? Cheryl had no idea who I was. I knew very much so who she was for years and years and years. And, you know, I say this all the time. I'll reach out to ten people and I'll hear back from three of them. And Cheryl Strayed, I wanted to get a writer on the podcast. I wanted it to be Cheryl because her it her whole. Everything about her can be plugged into any creative industry or outlet. So I reached out to her, and three months later I got an email back from Cheryl, I'd love to be on your podcast, you know, And of course I have to share that when I'm reaching out to people like Cheryl Strayed, it's coming with a deck of everything I have. You know, I'm not just cold calling these people. It's definitely like, my name is Emily McClary, This is what I've done. This is the past two seasons. This is who you might know that has that, you know, it's like the six degrees of separation. You have to kind of plug those things in. And that's one of my talents. I'm good at that. I'm good at connecting. So, yeah, I've been fortunate and that's what's made my podcast. You know, it's still relatively small and my numbers are, you know, going up every day. But as you know, it's it's tough. It's it's not it's not a sprint. It's a marathon for sure. And I'm a sprinter, right? So this was super. But but I found that what I brought to the table were these amazing humans, you know, and the numbers are slowly following that People are are catching on. And of course, there's tons of marketing, organic marketing that goes into that. [00:11:12][142.2]

[00:11:13] Speaker 1: That's so true about how to reach out to people like you have to come correct if you're going to pitch. Cheryl Strayed You get. [00:11:20][6.9]

[00:11:20] Speaker 3: Like send. [00:11:20][0.3]

[00:11:21] Speaker 1: A one line email like, Do you want to come on my podcast? You need to make a case for why she should. So she just said yes. And it happened. [00:11:30][8.8]

[00:11:31] Speaker 2: She said yes. And I screamed when I read the email and I cried and I got my shit together because I knew that I had to professionally conduct. She's really one of my favorite people in the world. And, you know, it took as you know, it's like scheduling. And I do all my schedule on my own. It's tons of back and forth. And she was I was going to fly out on, you know, on my dime fiercely to Portland, where she lives. And then at the last minute, she was like, I'm going to be in Philadelphia for Thanksgiving. Are you around the day before Thanksgiving? And I called my partner and I was like, not coming to Colorado for Thanksgiving to be with your family. I'm here. I'm driving to Philadelphia the day before Thanksgiving, and I met her in her Airbnb. [00:12:23][52.5]

[00:12:24] Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Amazing. Yeah, I probably would have changed my plans. Oh, sure, for sure. [00:12:29][4.6]

[00:12:29] Speaker 3: Yeah. Nothing against your boyfriend's family or whatever? No, no. [00:12:34][4.8]

[00:12:37] Speaker 1: So, in general, now you're on your third season. How has podcasting changed your career and your life? [00:12:43][6.5]

[00:12:44] Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, this past year in my I'm 42 years old. I'm an. Art advisor. I'm a curator. I have a background in education and sales. This past year has been so pivotal because I've taken this community and what I have to say to and it and I've taken it public and it's out there. And I mean, to be quite honest, it's changed everything for me. It's changed everything. It's been the biggest gift. People more and more, especially in the past couple of months, are reaching out to me, telling me how much said episode, helped them, touched them, spoke to them. You know how essential this podcast is for them. And I've gotten some amazing press. I had a feature in Vogue Italia during the season. Amazing that I landed on my own. And, you know, it wasn't through, you know, a PR team that I hired. So I've been really lucky and I've gotten some great press. And it's I don't know. I mean, I cannot wait for the day where I really start making money off of this podcast because, I mean, this is it's my passion. I love it so much. So much. [00:14:06][82.3]

[00:14:07] Speaker 1: I love to hear that. Well, I was thinking about, you know, the title for this episode, and I think I have to call it podcast Like a motherfucker, right? [00:14:16][9.2]

[00:14:19] Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. [00:14:19][0.6]

[00:14:20] Speaker 1: I'll approve of that. [00:14:20][0.8]

[00:14:21] Speaker 2: Yeah, she sure would. And I definitely approve of that because that's what it is. You have to hit the ground. I mean, like, this is a lot of work and you're not going to follow through. That's how many podcasts start. And don't make it to season two. And, you know, that's fine. I've stopped doing plenty of things in my life, but it's a lot of work. Like I said, it's a marathon. It's not a sprint, and you have to love it. [00:14:52][30.8]

[00:14:53] Speaker 1: Yes, Yes. Oh my God. [00:14:54][1.4]

[00:14:55] Speaker 3: This just made me think. [00:14:55][0.8]

[00:14:56] Speaker 1: Someone guested on one of my shows and then they emailed me and they were like, Hey, should I. [00:15:00][4.3]

[00:15:00] Speaker 3: Start a podcast? And I was like. [00:15:02][2.2]

[00:15:03] Speaker 1: I don't have enough time to. I know there's like 25 questions to ask yourself, and I like the answer. Unless you love. [00:15:13][9.6]

[00:15:13] Speaker 3: It is probably no. [00:15:15][1.4]

[00:15:17] Speaker 2: 100%. [00:15:17][0.0]

[00:15:19] Speaker 1: If you love it, you should do it. But you know, it's just so funny, me thinking in my head that I think I should answer it like a for content because people should hear it. But the answer in my head was like, so long. [00:15:30][10.5]

[00:15:30] Speaker 3: I was like, I get responded and. [00:15:32][2.0]

[00:15:33] Speaker 2: It's the same. It's the same thing when young women come to me like, I want to be an entrepreneur. You know, I've been an entrepreneur for the past ten years. I'm like. [00:15:42][9.1]

[00:15:45] Speaker 3: Have you thought about. [00:15:45][0.8]

[00:15:46] Speaker 2: It so layered? Like, Are you okay being broke for four years? You know, if you're okay, you know, So it's the same thing in the podcasting. I think I almost had I had some scar tissue, right? First, from being an entrepreneur when the podcasting world came out, you know, I was like, All right, this is going to be tough and this is going to be a long haul. And, you know, it's certainly not for the it's not for anyone that doesn't. [00:16:17][30.8]

[00:16:17] Speaker 1: For the faint of heart. Yeah. No, no. [00:16:19][1.9]

[00:16:20] Speaker 3: You got to podcast. [00:16:21][0.3]

[00:16:21] Speaker 1: Like a motherfucker. Yeah, well, it's a pleasure. Thank you so much. [00:16:25][4.1]

[00:16:26] Speaker 2: Thank you. Courtney. [00:16:26][0.7]

[00:16:29] Speaker 1: Hey, besties. I want to tell you about an upcoming class that I am teaching. It is starting on Wednesday, July 26th, and it is a five week class called Creating Your Podcast. We are going to talk about your show's premise. We're going to talk about recording techniques, episode planning, guest booking, sustainable content strategies, making a trailer, scripting, post-production, editing, publishing, marketing and launch and monetization. We're covering it all and we're covering it in five weeks, and you're going to get to workshop your trailer. It is going to be a wild ride. I am teaching it through roadmap writers. I love roadmap. That is actually how I got my agent. I am not an agent, but you can take my podcasting class. So if you are interested, check out the shout outs for more info about my upcoming class creating your podcast. All right, besties. This is the moment we have all been waiting for. Or maybe just me. Now it's all of us. This is Emily interviewing Cheryl on her podcast, The Art Career Podcast. [00:17:28][58.4]

[00:17:31] Speaker 2: So the first topic I have is your famous write like a motherfucker. Paint like a motherfucker. Acts like a motherfucker. Fill in the blank. [00:17:40][8.9]

[00:17:40] Speaker 4: Everything. People have had me sign their books. Engineer Like a motherfucker. Mother Like a motherfucker. Yes. I love that. That has become. An anthem for so many people in different whatever their work they do that they do it like a motherfucker. [00:17:55][14.9]

[00:17:56] Speaker 2: And I think it's become this, like widely known quote of yours. But if we pull back a little bit, the difference between the creatives I know that have made it and the creatives I know that have and sometimes chosen not to make it, whatever that means to you. There's really I mean, you kind of have to be out of your mind and really dive into something like a motherfucker. So we say it and it's funny, but it's actually very, very true. [00:18:27][31.6]

[00:18:28] Speaker 4: Absolutely. And all in, you know, I call it having motherfucker tattooed. And I do think that you have to have a Yeah. To make it as an artist of any sort, whether it be a writer or a painter or a filmmaker. And what motherfucker tattooed to me is that relentless discipline, that relentless belief in oneself against all of the demons that are inside of us. I think sometimes when I say you have to fiercely believe in yourself, people think that that means that I'm saying don't have doubts, don't have fears, don't have anxieties. And of course I'm not saying that, but really deciding I am going to do this work and I'm not going to let anything stop me. I'm not going to let my own inner demons stop me. I'm not going to let rejection from others stop me. I'm not going to let those opinions that hurt stop me. I'm going to do it like a motherfucker, You know, keeping that deep faith, having that deep sense of nerve and courage that it takes to do that work. [00:19:28][60.1]

[00:19:30] Speaker 1: Oh, that was so good. The perfect holiday inspiration. Besties. We are going to come back rested and recharged and ready to podcast like motherfuckers. And if you want to check out more of Emily's podcast, which I highly recommend, just search the art career on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts or go to the art career dotcom. And thank you so much for tuning in to podcast Bestie Bestie. Make sure you check out the last episode with Daniel NASIR Corbett all about A.I. tools and how to maximize your blog and podcast show notes and besties. I have a very exciting announcement. I have two recent reviews that I want to share with you. The first one is from Ashley of the Taboo Science Podcast, and she says, Actionable. Every episode of this show leaves me with something I'm inspired to do to optimize my own podcast. I also love that Kourtney's interview questions often seem to come from her own personal desire to improve her shows rather than talking points designed to make the guest look good. And that makes the answers incredibly valuable to her audience who are in the same boat as she is. It doesn't hurt that Kourtney has a killer radio voice. Oh, Ashley, with the panty dropper. No, you guys should definitely check out Taboo Science Podcast. Ashley's always covering the most fascinating topics from a super unique perspective, and she's got the research to back it up. And I got another review from Taylor Foust of the newly rebranded Sisters Assembled. You guys should all search. Sisters assembled from Taylor Foust and give that a follow because it is newly rebranded and Taylor says Love. The focus on India's podcast Bestie is a fantastic resource for both podcasters just starting out and those that have been around for a bit. Courtney does a great job of taking the insights and knowledge from industry experts and really distilling the parts that indie podcasters can use to move the needle on their shows. Not to mention the guests are a who's who of experts and thought leaders. All indie podcasters should know, so it's a great way to learn more about those really driving podcasting. If you're new to this space. Thank you so much to Taylor of Sisters Assembled. Again, give them a follow up. And bestie, I want to collaborate with you too. I would love to give you a shout out right here on the next episode. So if you leave me a five star rating and a review on Apple Podcasts and email it to me, or just leave your info in the review, I will give you a free shout out. Plus, there's another easy way to get featured on the show. You can buy a sponsorship at podcast BestBuy.com slash advertise again podcast BestBuy.com slash advertise. I have super affordable packages starting at just $30 and check out my other podcasts for more of my audio creations. I have private parts unknown, which is about love and sexuality around the world, and The Bleeder is about book writing and publishing, and you can follow the in-between episodes at Courtney Kozak, that is. K okay. K on Instagram and Twitter, and I send out lots of newsletter exclusives to my Besties podcast. Bestie actually started as a newsletter, so make sure you are signed up for podcast Bestie on Substack that is podcast bestie dot substack dot com slash welcome. Until next time happy podcasting and bestie you better podcast like a motherfucker. Okay. Bye bestie. [00:19:30]

TranscriptCourtney KocakTranscript, podcasting, Courtney Kocak, Podcast Bestie, podcast producing, podcast marketing, networking, Emily McElwreath, Cheryl Strayed, guest booking