What Is V4V? A Primer on Value4Value Monetization for Indie Podcasters with Kyrin Down

Podcast Bestie, the Podcast

Episode 16 Show Notes

Guest: Kyrin Down, Mere Mortals host

Host: Courtney Kocak, Podcast Bestie founder

Hi Besties! For the season finale, Kyrin Down, co-host of the Mere Mortals Podcast, is here to give us a primer on V4V, or Value4Value, which is a new way to think about value in podcasting. Basically, V4V enables payment directly from podcast listener to podcaster using Bitcoin, making it easy to support your favorite podcasters, no matter where in the world they are based. Value4Value is a good option for pretty much every indie podcaster's monetization strategy, and in this episode, Kyrin explains why.

Watch the video version of Kyrin’s interview on YouTube.

If you missed the last episode, check out How to Rebrand Your Podcast with Angie Griffith of Podfluencer Society.

Thanks to Michael Castañeda for mixing and mastering this episode. Follow him on Twitter and Instagram @plasticaudio.

And thank you to Matt Gilhooly for fine-tuning the video and creating the social media assets for this episode. Follow him on Twitter @theliftshiftpod.

A big thanks to our BFFs for sponsoring this episode:

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  • mowPod is an effective, targeted way to promote your show. It's already trusted by industry giants like Conde Nast, iHeartMedia, and HubSpot Podcast Network, and that's because it works. But mowPod isn’t just for the big guys — mowPod Boost is perfect for indie podcasters. It’s actually been my favorite paid advertising experiment to date, and you can try it for just $100. Plus, if you are a Bestie, you get 10% off with this link. Try it, and let me know what you think!

  • The Life Shift podcast recently celebrated 100 episodes! Tune in to hear host Matt Gilhooly bring candid conversations about life-changing moments. The 100th episode features Justin Moore's inspiring journey. Listen to The Life Shift!

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TRANSCRIPT (This is a rough AI-generated transcript for immediate accessibility, please excuse any mistakes.)

[00:00:03] Speaker 1: Hi, my name is Kyrin Down. I am the host of the Mere Mortals podcast, Mere Mortals Book Reviews and the Value 4 Value podcast. [00:00:09]

[00:00:10] Speaker 2: Hey podcast besties! Welcome back to the show dedicated to making your podcast the best it can be. I'm Courtney Kozak, your VFW grow and monetize your show and this is the season finale besties. And we are coming full circle back to James Cridland. James is, of course, the Podnews editor and host, and he was also the very first guest on Podcast Bestie, the Podcast. And today we are talking about V4V. And James actually started me on my V4V journey, kind of inadvertently. More on that later. But first I want to introduce you to our guest, Kyrin Down, co-host of the Mere Mortals podcast and host of the value for value podcast. Kyrin is here to give us a primer on V4V, which is a new way to think about value and monetization in podcasting. So basically V4V enables payment directly from podcast listener to podcaster using Bitcoin. It makes it super easy to support your favorite podcasters, no matter where in the world they might be based. And since we recorded this episode several months back, I have been testing this out and in my humble opinion, value for value is a good option to include in pretty much every Indy podcasters monetization strategy. And on today's episode, Kyrin is going to help me explain why. First, bring the besties up to speed. Let's get the CliffsNotes of your podcasting origin story. Like what brought you to podcasting and what's been your experience so far? [00:01:47]

[00:01:48] Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So like most people, I have a a weird one where it's the oh, man, I wish I'd recorded this. Uh, I was actually traveling Latin America. I've got my big map behind me here. Um, and, uh, I was doing these weekly conversations with my friends, and we'd kind of catch up, check in, talk about what we're doing, funny stories, maybe like self-development, something like that. And as usual, would finish and be like, damn, we should do a record of that. Uh, so it could have been done whilst I was traveling, but it would have been a nightmare, uh, trying to organize it at all. So when I came back from my big trip, uh, my friend Juan one day was like, let's just do it. So we got some microphones and, you know, just did it. The kind of crappy way of using a GoPro camera with, uh, super focused in lens with the, uh, you know, shoddy mics in my parents spare room on paint cans and all that good. [00:02:41]

[00:02:41] Speaker 2: Stuff to start somewhere. Yeah. Exactly. [00:02:43]

[00:02:43] Speaker 1: Right. [00:02:43]

[00:02:44] Speaker 2: So and then now you have explained the podcast that you have going today. [00:02:48]

[00:02:49] Speaker 1: Okay. So I've got a few on the run at the moment. Uh, the main one is the Mere Mortals podcast. That's a conversation type one I do with my friend. Uh, we get on guess sometimes it's it's kind of a mixture of guests and us talking about just topics we find interesting. So usually it's tech related stuff or fitness or self-development that sort of things. I've got one called Minimalist Book Reviews, pretty self-explanatory. It's kind of a book reviews. And then value for value is another one that I also do, which is explaining the value for value model and looking into, I suppose, all the things related to that in terms of how people are implementing it, uh, for their own podcasts. [00:03:26]

[00:03:27] Speaker 2: Oh, I love that. Okay, so this is the occasion for our conversation today is talking about V for V. You heard me on Podnews Weekly or you heard me on Podcasting 2.0. [00:03:39]

[00:03:40] Speaker 1: Uh, a bit of both. I think I heard you on Podnews Weekly. They talked about it on podcasting too, but, uh, so yes, you are on, uh, hosting for filling in for Sam on Podnews Weekly, which is a very good, good podcast to find out about all the newest podcast news and whatnot. [00:03:55]

[00:03:55] Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:03:55]

[00:03:56] Speaker 1: And right at the end, you made a comment about asking James about value for value. How can I do value for value? And he kind of gave an example at the end there. And there's this kind of interplay with James's show and podcasting 2.0, which is the the project I suppose to improve podcasting, add a new tag. So features like transcripts or being able to go live and using value for value. And so they were mentioning like, uh, he missed an opportunity. Uh, Courtney was really interested, but she didn't he didn't like give her this the spiel the, the full easy way to to go through it and whatnot. So yeah, I reached out to you after that just to see if you wanted to know more. [00:04:36]

[00:04:37] Speaker 2: Yeah. Very generously. Give me the spiel. So let's do the spiel proper. So okay, we are going to get into the V for v spiel in just a second, don't you worry. But first, not to belabor this, but it was really thrilling to first sit in for Samsung at the UN pod newsweekly and get a podcast with James Cridland. And then it was even more thrilling for Adam Curry, one of the inventors of podcasting, to talk about me on Podcasting 2.0, complete with clips. So of course I have to share a clip. This is how it went down. [00:05:10]

[00:05:11] Speaker 3: So I'm listening to PWA Power Farm. I was listening to Pod News Weekly Review and Sam Sethi is not on the show. He's off skiing in Kitzbühel, probably with Roy from breeze. I don't know these guys, you know, I'm just in Kitzbuhel in Switzerland. I'm going to have a look. They're doing a deal. They do a funding deal, they're doing a deal, some sort. So yeah. James has a. Has a guest host, Courteney Cox. Coco. Coco I think is her name now Courteney Cox. We had not heard of before. She's no slouch. She's uh. Let me see. I got her website here. She's based in Los Angeles. She's, uh, uh, comedian. She's written for, uh, um, I think Washington Post, uh, variety in Los Angeles Times. Cosmo. Uh, um, yeah. So she's she's got something going on. Yeah. She made a hooker joke, which instantly was I was I was a fan of her. So this is great. Yeah, exactly. So. Oh, you heard the. You heard the show. Fantastic. Um, I'm a little bit into it, so I'll, I'll, I'll just. You know, she was talking about social because a certain point, James very correctly starts to interview her about herself, and she makes this joke and I'm listening in bed with, you know, with one ear, because, you know, Tina was already asleep. She saw in logs. I'm like, I'm just kind of listening. She. If I'm going to fall asleep or not. It's something that, that I don't typically do. But the show came out later than normal for me, so I still wanted to hear to know what's going on in podcasting the Week in review, which is what the show does. Yeah, this surprised me that you were listening in bed. I didn't think that was your style. It's not my style at all. So all of you have wine? Uh, no. No. No. Nothing. No. This is. This is the Lord's work, ma'am, because otherwise I would not have known this. I'm telling you. And this is going to benefit, uh, uh, going to benefit Courtney. It's going to benefit. Uh, Rob Greenlee is going to benefit, uh, podcasting 2.0. So this is I'm just positive. Then she's there talking about her social justice work or something, and I wasn't quite sure. But this is 22 seconds just short. And this got my attention. Like, oh, this is an interesting person. [00:07:24]

[00:07:24] Speaker 2: I do like social justice inequality, but I would I have to say, you know, why I think they added that line is because I, on Twitter offered to DM people topless photos of me if they would donate to Black Lives Matter. So I really don't think that is the kind of social justice figure that they're thinking. [00:07:43]

[00:07:45] Speaker 3: Oh, wowzers, wowzers, I love this look, I love Jace wowzers. Because of course we all visualize this immediately. So I'm like, you have my attention, Courtney. What else you got? So. So, James. Mission accomplished. Yeah, I'm. This is his good show. So, James, they were talking about ChatGPT and how incorrect it is. So James is now going to talk about her podcast, which is titled Private Parts Unknown. And if for whatever reason, it's a British thing, I don't know, it's a it's an Australian thing. You can't really describe it because it's naughty. Whatever. But yeah, this is your this is your smutty podcast. Smutty, smutty podcast. Yes. So it's a podcast I seem to remember I had to write about in Pod news, but obviously I'd like everybody who works in boring corporate environments to, uh, get the newsletter. And so therefore I couldn't actually write anything about what the podcast was about, which was very strange. But there we are. This is all right. What what's that? What's that podcast about private. [00:08:45]

[00:08:46] Speaker 2: Parts, unknown love and sexuality around the world. Hello. [00:08:48]

[00:08:49] Speaker 3: Hello. You have my attention all the way. No, no. Like. Okay, this is interesting. An ice cube soup says two words. Chapter art. And she's actually. Yeah, she's actually part of a network. And I just picked the first 25. It's not even her show. It's the first 25 seconds of her podcast where she's promoting another podcast on the network. But you get the whole idea in 25 seconds. [00:09:11]

[00:09:12] Speaker 2: Hello privates. Before we get into today's episode, I want to turn you on to a very horny podcast from the Pleasure Podcast Network. It is the horny housewife baby and Jordan is the host. She's talking about all things sex and marriage, which, you know, I'm in a long term relationship. I know what's up. So check out the horny housewife. [00:09:35]

[00:09:37] Speaker 3: Boom shots from McCarthy. Now. Now comes the outcomes. The kicker, the beauty, beauty, beauty. Part of what's going on on this podcast, out of the blue, she says this, uh, takes a while. [00:09:52]

[00:09:53] Speaker 2: So what can you explain to me, James? Because I have been obviously, we're in the tech segment right now, and I've been listening to your show a lot today in preparation for this. And I am, like, really excited about the TV. [00:10:09]

[00:10:10] Speaker 3: Yeah, from from you. [00:10:11]

[00:10:11] Speaker 2: So can you tell me about it? And I'm not a techie. Like, am I going to know how to set this up? And is it worth it if I don't have a bunch of people trying to give me stats all this? Will they want to give me stats or not? I don't know. [00:10:24]

[00:10:25] Speaker 3: What we're going to want to give you. So. Well, I mean, I think I think it's coming up. So first firstly going to the booster and then we can. So James falls down on the job. And if any goes to Booster Graham Corner. And then he does this whole thing like that and like no, no no, no, this this podcaster caught miss Coker is primed and ready to do full on value for value lit. Go live. This would blow V for V podcasting 2.0 out of the water. Rob Greenlee. Your mission is clear should you choose to accept it. Get in contact with her, man. Set her up. Have Todd fix the, you know, get the the live streaming set up. This is the. This is your, um. This is the moment. This is an I mean, it's sweet if you think booster gramme sounds and the booster gram segment is good on the on a regular show. Are you kidding me? Booster ons on horny housewives. I mean, give me a break. Well, that's a private parts are known as her podcast. Okay? I mean, either one, the whole network could benefit. This is my fans live streaming lit. My fans lit. Only fans lit. Whatever my have is my family. Yes, this is a look. I'm. I'm too old for this. I don't go running after talent anymore, I just don't. I did it all my life. Running after talent for interviews, running for networks, all this stuff. I'm not going to do it, but I'm. I would like to point out this is a massive opportunity. [00:12:09]

[00:12:13] Speaker 2: What an exciting opportunity. Whoo! That was fun. Okay, so let's get into value. For value. So first define v for v and then explain how the model works. Because I don't think every indie podcasters familiar with this. It's a little niche. [00:12:30]

[00:12:31] Speaker 1: Yeah it definitely is niche. So V for V stands for value. For value. It's a model that was particularly created by Adam Currie, one of the guys who invented podcasting, on his show No Agenda with John C Dvorak. And in its simplicity, it's it's really easy. I provide value to you, and I just ask that you return value in some form. You can see modern parallels for this with busking. Uh, you know, buskers are out in the street. They're just doing their thing, and they don't even ask. Or they might have a little placard or something like that. Or. I know you've traveled before, Courtney, if. Have you ever been on a walking tour? [00:13:06]

[00:13:07] Speaker 2: Uh, I love walking tours. [00:13:08]

[00:13:09] Speaker 1: So a lot of them will be a free walking tour. And so you go to it, and those people will show you the sights and whatnot. And then right at the end, they usually say, look, there's a company kind of behind this, but we don't take any profits. Everything that you donate back to me right now, I just ask, you know, how much value did you get out of this tour? So that's modern examples in the quote unquote real world. Uh, for podcasting, it's a bit different because we have this digital medium, this ability to reproduce a single piece of content ad infinitum. So in this case, it's a lot easier to just say, hey, if you got value from this, please return it. And you could be speaking to a thousand, 100,000, a million people if you've got a big, big podcast. So that's the the simplicity of it, just asking for some value in return. [00:13:56]

[00:13:57] Speaker 2: So you're asking your listeners for value in return. But there are other ways, right? They can share it with someone they can. It might be money, but it's not always money. As I heard you kind of frame it at the end of your show. [00:14:10]

[00:14:11] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So value is very subjective. We all know the trope. I guess one man's, uh, treasure is another man's trash or vice versa. One administration on man's treasure. So value can be very different for different people and ways of displaying it and the opportunity for it. So a nice way of framing this is the three TS time, talent and treasure. So one way of doing this if I just ask value in return, and it's always really useful as the podcaster to give many different options to kind of highlight how this can be done. So the simplest and easiest one I I've noticed you doing it on most of your shows is asking to share with a friend, or perhaps to leave a rating or review on, you know, Apple or Spotify or whatnot. Mhm. Simple one. Everyone can know that talent is a little bit more tricky, because you can have some really niche listeners who might know things that you don't know, have knowledge that you don't know, or a skill or a talent. So in my book reviews one, for example, I usually ask for recommendations. You know, I do these book reviews. You can kind of get a feel for what I enjoy, send me in a review or, uh, a recommendation of another book I should review. So, you know, it's kind of like a specialized little niche piece of knowledge, which is hard to find elsewhere. Um, another one, for example, I was struggling with because I'd go live on YouTube. And so there was this kind of gap between the live starting and then me actually starting the show. And so I had all these chapter markers which weren't matching up and whatnot. I tried doing it in Excel and like my Excel knowledge is medium. And I had, uh, a listener, a supporter who was really good with Excel. So he whipped up a sheet for me in five minutes, which all I have to do is copy and paste and it translate all these values across. And, you know, it was doing it in these weird formats, which would have taken me hours probably to figure out. And he did it in five minutes. That's a great example of, um, providing something that I don't have and would struggle a lot with. And they can do really easily. And then, of course, money wise that's the value in terms of treasure. So so many different options for this is PayPal is sending in a direct gift. Perhaps if you're going to a meet up or something like that of fan mail of, you know, all these sorts of different things, and then the cool stuff now is being able to do it within the actual podcasting app. So it feels a lot easier. It's it's kind of intuitive. [00:16:41]

[00:16:42] Speaker 2: I love the philosophy of like it being this more of a conversation with your listeners and like them being involved in the value proposition, too. So what drew you to V for V, and how did you get started at the beginning? [00:16:58]

[00:16:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so I started my podcasting journey, I suppose, in September 2019. And like I was saying, it was really kind of shoddy at first, which I think is a good recommendation just in general. Don't buy all the. And if you're not sure if you enjoy speaking into a microphone and and video if you're doing that as well. So it's probably probably six months until I was like, I, I'm kind of serious about this. I'm willing to to get more of a studio setup, which is what I have here. And I did it probably for another year, uh, not even thinking about doing anything other than getting some listeners, you know, not not speaking into the void, which is one of these great things about of of value for value is you can get a bit more of this connection with your audience. And, you know, it's not just a lie, perhaps on Twitter or something like that. It's a that's showing some value and it can be in a very small form, but it matters a lot that, uh, breaks that speaking into the void, which, uh, I think we've all experienced. So I was doing that for a while, and then I was just getting to the point where it was like, okay, I would like to make some money from this. I would like to make this a kind of full time gig or a job, but I personally just have a dislike of advertising. This has always been with me. I've always hated ads on TV. It's very rare that I find one which is like, wow, I'm glad I spent 30s of my life watching that or listening to that. So I was kind of desperate to be honest. I was looking for anything else. I knew that was the Patreon models or the paywalls and things like that. I also have a kind of philosophy that I feel my podcast should be available anytime, anywhere for anyone anyhow, so I don't I don't like putting barriers in front of that. And you can see that with a lot of shows that go exclusive on Spotify, for example. [00:18:54]

[00:18:54] Speaker 2: Right. [00:18:54]

[00:18:55] Speaker 1: Now, a lot of them tend to switch back up and make it more broad because I realize, uh, you know, and they what, 30% max of people are listening on Spotify if that. Yeah. So I was actually listening to James Cridland on a random thing during Covid where he was doing an online presentation, and then right at the end he was said, oh, you know, by the way, there's this thing called podcasting 2.0. Adam Carr is doing it. And uh, you can get, uh, support via Bitcoin. And I just thought, what the hell scam is this? Adam is going to send me Bitcoin. Is that how this works? Thankfully I got over that that little initial reaction to that and dived a bit deeper into it and realized, okay, no, it's a it's an open platform, very much like RSS, which is use to be able to, uh, be on sensible in many ways. If you really want to, you can do it from start to finish and own the whole stack and not have anyone, like with your podcast, um, Private Parts Unknown. That gets into some, I suppose, spicy topics, some topics which are illegal in other countries. And if you're in a certain jurisdiction, that country would say, uh, you know, no, we want to shut that down and you could shut it down at the knees, much like getting kicked off YouTube or Twitter or any of these places. So the whole concept of podcasting 2.0 and this kind of links to value for value is it's it's to extend this ability to speak your mind on whatever subjects you want to. And now there's this additional infrastructure where you can get your listeners to support you via any of these different means. So you're not trapped into using just a Patreon or just a PayPal, where many people have been kicked off of these things, which is, uh, unfortunate. And it it hurts. It hurts a lot. [00:20:47]

[00:20:50] Speaker 2: Hey, besties, just a quick word from our sponsors. First up is memento, which I actually use on the YouTube channels and create social media assets for all of my shows because being successful with podcasts and video is a full time job that most people, including myself, don't have the time or experience to do. And that's where memento comes in. Because memento is an end to end AI video marketing tool that finds your shareable moments, creates beautiful shorts and even schedules straight to social. Can I do more? Yes, memento can write high quality show notes, social posts, tweets, and even jokes from your content. Your first upload is free and there is a link in the show notes. So what are you waiting for? Go see what I could do with your video. And our next sponsor is none other than the awesome podcaster who helps me with my podcasting video. Matt Gillooly and Matt just celebrated 100 episodes with his podcast, The Life Shift, and he had a very special episode on December 12th with Justin Moore to celebrate that. The Life Shift is a weekly podcast featuring candid conversations with people about the pivotal moments that changed their lives forever. And oh my God, I listened to Matt's episode. Recently, where he talks about the loss of his mother and his grandmother and who. That is an incredible episode and really shares the why behind this podcast and it is so touching. I encourage you to check that out and check out his 100th episode with Justin Moore. And I think you're probably going to be hooked on the Life Shift by Matt Gillooly. And you can buy his sponsorship to podcast bestie at podcast bestie.com/advertise. Okay, now back to the show. So so far Kyrin has made a solid case for why V for V can be good for any podcasters. But now let's learn about how to get started. Do you use fountain or what platform are you on a platform that facilitates your V for V? [00:23:00]

[00:23:01] Speaker 1: Yeah, so some actionable advice I guess, for people who perhaps have a podcast and want to jump in. There's a few different ways you can go about it. Probably the easiest I would say is using the fountain app, which is a podcasting app in itself. But as a podcast, uh, you can go in and claim your feed in there. There is a wallet, and basically you can then start saying hey to your audience if you want to, uh, send in some Bitcoin, which is what all of this is using, because fiat money can't be streamed using micropayments. Uh, you can go into financing. [00:23:37]

[00:23:38] Speaker 2: Explain what you mean. [00:23:39]

[00:23:40] Speaker 1: So, for example, if I wanted to support your podcast, uh, so I'm here in Australia, right? Uh, if I wanted to send money into into you right now, how would I do that? I would, I would have to use a platform like PayPal or Patreon, because there's no way I can use Australian dollars to be able to, to just give it to you. I don't know, complicated. Yeah, yeah. Uh, I don't know if you've tried sending money overseas using a bank transfer, but that's, uh, it's a painful process, really painful. So the great thing about Bitcoin is it can be used to kind of transfer value from anywhere in the world. And it all links up nicely. There's no there's no, I suppose, issues with regards to this person having a middleman saying, Will I accept this payment or not. It's it's this kind of direct peer to peer nature, much like podcasting is. When I listen to your your show. Yes, there is an app, I suppose that ingests the feed, but if I really want to, I can go into your RSS link, I can find the link to your audio and I can listen to that on the desktop. So it's very similar in that sense where no one's trying to lock you into anything. So if you go in to fountain and do this, you don't have to use the fountain app. You don't have to say to your audience, only listen via fountain. You could go on to pod Verse or Breeze or Costa matic, or Curate Costa, or there's a whole bunch of other ones as well. And so you're not locking your audience into just listening via one thing which is which is silly, because you don't want all your audience in just one place, because perhaps they have different needs. Perhaps they enjoy more the ability to have individual minutia like podcast, uh, addict does, where you can. The settings in that thing are insane. You can just go deeper and deeper and deeper. Or perhaps you want a real simple, easy to use version which doesn't have all of these additional features. So this is the good thing about asking support through value. For value, you just have to use an app which accepts it. Um, unfortunately, at the moment Apple and Spotify don't. Perhaps they will in the future, which are the big ones, but there's plenty of really great podcasting apps and you can choose from that. So it's you're not trying to lock anyone into anything with this. [00:26:03]

[00:26:03] Speaker 2: But you would say fountain is a great place to start for people. [00:26:06]

[00:26:07] Speaker 1: For a podcaster. Yes, definitely. You can also go to podcasts, a Walmart.com, and if you are a bit more tech savvy with, um, Bitcoin and and the Lightning Network, which is kind of a weird way of using Bitcoin, I would say there's there's an ability to claim your feed via there as well. Or if you're really, really tech savvy and you have your own podcast, you can put it in the actual tags in your in your RSS feed. So that's probably the easiest way for a listener to support. Fountain is also great because as your A listener, they actually reward you with SATs for listening. So it's a very small portion. And that is short for Satoshi, which is a portion of Bitcoin. There's 100 million satoshis in one Bitcoin. So if you're on fountain, I think each day they give you an hour of listening and they'll reward you I suppose with 60 satoshis, which is, I don't know, a half a penny or something like that in US dollars. And. If you do that enough, you can earn, you know, a little bit over a period of time. And then if you want to, you can boost that or stream that into your favorite podcaster. And you're starting this kind of value loop of rewarding the podcaster for that effort and saying thank you to them, which is, uh, very much appreciated. [00:27:27]

[00:27:28] Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, I love that. Okay, so it doesn't sound like you tried any other monetization strategies, is that right? [00:27:35]

[00:27:36] Speaker 1: For myself, no. No. So the good thing about this is you don't have to go all in on this. It's not like you can only do value for value. You know, there's there's plenty of different ways, uh, many shows do advertising, the standard advertising sponsorships. You can do the Patreon model as well. It's designed to fit in with everything. I like it as the the overarching term, because it's a way of using your call to action, for example, and couching it in terms of value for values. The biggest step is, is getting over this hurdle of of feeling like you're begging, uh, asking for your audience. That's that's a hard step. And it's a step, I suppose, that you also have to do, whether you're doing Patreon or PayPal or any of these other methods. So you have to get over it at some stage. But I think catching it in this terms of value for value is helping of that, because you're doing the first up, you're doing the work at the start. You know, uh, when I reached out to you, I listen to podcast best with James. And then I sent in a review because you asked for that. And, you know, I didn't ask for anything in return. I just like doing that. So it's this nice aspect where you're not it doesn't feel like you're trying to take before you've already given, I suppose. [00:28:54]

[00:28:55] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually a great point. And it's interesting because I'm on both sides. Right. Like sometimes I'm reaching out and I have a request, and I also have people that want to be featured in my newsletter or on my podcast or whatever. So I'm getting a lot of inbound stuff too, and it does make a big difference when someone takes the time to familiarize themselves with your work or like, that's very much appreciated that you sent to review. And like, you know, I asked people and I'm going to shout them out too. But I think going into it with like that community mindset is really important. And that's what I like about this monetization strategy. So how do you communicate this value proposition to your listeners and make that ask? Because you kind of have to educate your listeners in a way. Right. But I guess we're we're doing that a little bit. It's like you have to go a little further than, like you said, I'm already asking for a review, so tell me how you do it and like, how it kind of works together. [00:29:58]

[00:29:59] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. So how I personally do it, I usually like to split up my shows where I would do it more towards the end. So once again, this, this kind of aspect of giving you the good stuff at the start. So for the book reviews, for example, I'll do the full book review and then right at the end I'll do the ask. So that's personally how I do it. Uh, I know other people can split it up and do it in the middle, for example, as a as kind of like a teaser. One of the great things about when you're getting the support back from your listeners is being able to to highlight that and use that as actual show content. So during the middle of the show, you can say instead of, I got this nice email, or I got this nice, uh, tweet or something like that, you can say Jaime X boost it in a thousand stats. And they said that, that, that, that and you can kind of react to that. So that's that I also do that for the and mortals. For example I'll, I will do one episode more of a prerecorded one, which I just have to ask at the end. Hey, if you enjoyed the show time, talent and treasure all this many different ways of supporting, I'd recommend going to these different apps. And I usually list off ones that I've tried and I can kind of vouch for for using. I use fountain and pod verse on a pretty regular basis. And then I also will yeah, kind of linking in this feedback as well, relating to the void, speaking to the void as much as it's on a podcast to end speaking to the void, you can also have this as the listener. If you're the listener and you're listening to a show and you want to get in contact with them and you send them a message via email or Instagram or something, and you just get no response, that hurts just as much. That pain is still there. So one of the key aspects to value for value is linking the loop of of saying, I recognize your message. Thank you so much. You know, I really appreciate it. So that's a pretty important aspect of of the whole model. You have to feel good in terms of of providing the value back, uh, of providing the value upfront, I should say. And then the listener, the supporter has to feel good in that you're. Acknowledging it and receiving it, and that they are not just bursting into the void, so to speak. [00:32:15]

[00:32:15] Speaker 2: Mhm. Mhm. That's good. Hey besties is starting a podcast one of your New Year's resolutions this year. Well, I am teaching a five week class for roadmap writers called Creating Your Podcast starting on January 13th and it is going to be the perfect kickstart. In fact, I am going to be working on my new podcast alongside the class. So if creating your podcast is one of your 2024 goals, I encourage you to join us. And then on January 21st, I am teaching a one day workshop called Start a Newsletter to supercharge your platform, network and business and I am sharing everything I have learned from doing podcasts, bestie, and a bunch of additional research I did for the class. I am so excited about this! I taught this one time last year and I'm making it even better for 2024, so I encourage you to join us if you want to start a newsletter or do a better job with your companion newsletter to your podcast. It is just $75. There is more info in the episode description on both of these courses, or you can go to Courtney Kocak dot com slash links. Okay, now back to the episode. First of all, can I ask how much? Approximately you've made or can Sicily make? Yeah. [00:33:33]

[00:33:33] Speaker 1: Sure, sure. So across the various shows, I think I'm up to probably about 3 to 4 million satoshis. So with that being the problem with Bitcoin. [00:33:44]

[00:33:45] Speaker 2: It is a little rough. [00:33:46]

[00:33:47] Speaker 1: It changes a lot. So a half a month ago it was worth a lot less. And now it's it's worth a lot more. Uh, I think that would be about, uh, a grand and a bit. Oh, nice. I think probably two grand and Aussie dollars. So, you know, uh, a grand and a bit in, in American US dollars. Okay. I'm. I've got small shows. These these aren't big shows. You know, I'm getting so the mere models, it's maybe 50 to 100 listens per episode. The book reviews probably about 50 as well. So in terms of the the cost per mil, I suppose all up it's roughly equivalent to if I had just enabled ads. And I personally feel that my shows are way better for not having advertisements in them, whether it be the dynamic ads, which can be rather jarring at times, or it just goes in one way, or, uh, the feeling of shilling, which I also don't particularly enjoy. And look, it's once again, anyone can do whatever they want, you know, if you if you love advertising, if you've got a product of yourself that you've created and designed and you can vouch for getting on, go nuts. The problem is, is there's not that many case studies of it. The most, uh, obvious one is no agenda. And the brilliant thing about value for value is people value things really differently. So with, uh, Patreon or um, or something like that, where there's kind of set limits. Mhm. You'll only get what your, those limits are. So if you put it at, you know, $5, $10 and 15 show up, there's people who won't contribute on either side of that. So those people would go I'd maybe pay $2 a month but not five. Um, and so using value for value they can send in whatever they want. There's no restrictions or forcing. I've also had on the opposite end and this is tends to what happens. You'll get people who value it a lot. And so I've had people boost in at times uh, the equivalent of I think it was like 50 or $75 or something like that. [00:35:51]

[00:35:51] Speaker 2: Oh nice. [00:35:51]

[00:35:52] Speaker 1: For, for a small show, you know, that that's a big difference. And if I was using Patreon, I probably wouldn't have a $75 tier or something like that. So, uh, if you go on to no agenda, they've got a very big audience and I think they've had people donate in, you know, like 20 grand or five grand or just have serious amounts of money. So it's it's doable. You can create a living off it of of it. It has been shown to, to work, but it might feel more risky. And it is going to be a lot more hilly because you won't have a kind of set, standard, reliable thing, and it relies on your work as well. So it's a lot more a requiring of a daily effort. I like it because it it rewards my effort. The more effort I put in in terms of creating a better show, uh, in terms of creating a great product, the more people will value that. And, you know, it's this give and take. I've got to find what people value in terms of a show. So if I have 20 minutes of dead silence, that's not a great show. So people probably aren't going to appreciate that. But if it's really great at unique, if it's interesting, if it's shown that I've put a lot of effort into it, whether it be by a lots of editing or minimal editing, you get rewarded for the effort that you put in so well. [00:37:15]

[00:37:15] Speaker 2: I think V for V is a great addition to your monetization strategy, and I think it's important to get on fountain Sheerly for the discoverability aspect. I don't want to be misleading with this episode and give you unrealistic expectations, so I'm sharing my results. I started on Fountain in March of 2023, and I have three shows, and I've only made about $130 total for all three shows in the ten months since I started, and I have also run promotions, so I have spent a lot more money on fountain than I have made, and I just want to be straightforward about that. But I still think Beaver V is a great addition, like I said, and you need to be on fountain just so that you can be discovered there. I'm curious how you've optimized to respond to your listeners and also to like enhance this value proposition. Ask situation without getting annoying. [00:38:15]

[00:38:16] Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's a crucial one I suppose. So I, I try not push it. Like I said, I have just this one um section at the end is. Sometimes you can make games out of it. So for example, on our website, the main models podcast.com/supporter, we have a leaderboard. You know people like games and sometimes one guy has risen to the top and then he's he hasn't boosted for a while. So now it's like the opportunity to catch up is right now, you know, if you're being a bit more consistent, uh, we also do things like giving merch away. So it's not this isn't a moneymaking venture per se. So we've got a whole bunch of shots and we just say, hey, look, once you reach a 100,000 of contributing in, we'll send you a shirt and we'll send it wherever you are in the world. So if you're in, I don't know the opposite side in Russia, that that'll probably cost a bit, but we'll do it anyway. Like that's totally fine for us. So having these kind of like limits or making a game out of it Gamifying it is, is a really fun way of doing that. And people have so many different ways of, of doing it. So there's also numbers. So making the game out of the numbers. So if you send in 2222 or row of twos of some sort, they all look like little ducks. [00:39:37]

[00:39:38] Speaker 2: Oh, you did that didn't you. [00:39:39]

[00:39:39] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's my favorite one. So I it looks like a row of ducks and that. But you can send in, uh, Liberty boost 1776. You can send in the boob boost, 8008 copies. You can make games. [00:39:54]

[00:39:55] Speaker 2: I gotta send the boobs to to James. [00:39:56]

[00:39:58] Speaker 1: You know, 100%, 100%. And you can modify this and make it unique for your show. For private parts unknown. The boob boost is a no brainer, right? That's. Yeah, that's an awesome one. Uh, for if you've got more of a tech focused one or if you've got a sports one, for example, perhaps you'd have, uh, like a very tech focused one would, would maybe have the binary boost 101010 or something like that. So it's about making a game out of it as well and making it fun for the listeners and for the audience. So it's not a verbal assault of. [00:40:33]

[00:40:34] Speaker 2: Support us like that PR drive or whatever. [00:40:36]

[00:40:37] Speaker 1: Correct? Correct. [00:40:38]

[00:40:39] Speaker 2: So have you gotten any listener feedback that from your supporters that you think has changed your show for the better? [00:40:45]

[00:40:46] Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, some of them have been saying, you know, the audio on this one sucked. That's that's great. That's great feedback. And then I go, okay, yeah, I guess I, I stuff this one up. It's one of those ones you got to be slightly careful of, of not getting what's the term. I think it's audience capture or something like that where you get great feedback for, for doing something and then so you follow just that route and then you end up being trapped doing, I don't know, I Asmr reviews of fluffy cats or something go on YouTube. You know, you can. If you get enough feedback from certain individuals, you can go too far down a rabbit hole. So but there certainly are things. So it's it's a great mechanism for knowing, okay, this really resonated with the audience. So when I had on, uh, Oscar Mary, who is one of the co-founders of fountain, that show got boosted in a lot and it got a lot more listeners, and it was a great value signal for me, going, okay, it's not just me, you finding this crazy niche thing and no one else is caring about it. Now this there's obviously some interest in this. So it's a really great mechanism for knowing what your audience likes. And I find it a better mechanism than perhaps like an Instagram poll on your story. Because what if you, uh, have a knitting podcast or something like that and you only have grandmas listening who don't really use Instagram? Well, you know, you're kind of out of luck. And it's it's hard to know what they appreciate and what they don't. [00:42:21]

[00:42:22] Speaker 2: Well, we need to get these grandmas into Bitcoin so that we can get them on their feet for free. [00:42:27]

[00:42:28] Speaker 1: Might be it might take a little while. [00:42:29]

[00:42:30] Speaker 2: Yes. You it sounds like you listen to a lot of other Vivi shows. So who's like crushing it and doing cool things. [00:42:38]

[00:42:39] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So there's actually a chart on fountain.fm, I think slash charts. Or if you go to fountain.fm, the website, they have a chart link that you can click on. And so you can actually see VI, uh, the ranking of how much people have contributed back, which shows people are really valuing at the moment. So that's that's a great one in terms of being able to see just in pure terms of support what people like. A lot of them are Bitcoin shows. So Bitcoin's a part of it in the sense that for a podcasting in particular, it enables this ability to to support from anywhere in the world without this kind of restrictions. So if you're in Iran and you really like an American podcast, uh, or vice versa. You're going to have a real, real trouble sending any money in any way to them. So it's a part of it, but it's also not all of it. So and Bitcoin can scare people off I get that. And it takes a lot of time to to understand. But the good thing now is you can kind of play around with it with with really small amounts of money. It's not an investment. It's, it's more of a, a token of appreciation. So you can think of it like going to a, uh, playground fair or a park or something like that, where they have you buy $5 worth of funfair tokens or something, and then you use that inside the actual venue so you can kind of view it like that. I personally enjoy podcasting 2.0 in terms of being a podcaster and staying up on the latest technical developments and being able to provide a great product for my listeners and audience. So one of the things, for example, is, is chapters. So I don't know if you've had this, Courtney, but a lot of times you'll have a great link or a picture or something that you want to talk about, and you're having to describe it in the audio form because it's an audio format. There's some really cool things where they have chapters now, and you can include a link and a picture to and the timestamp of it. So when I get to the section on talking of a funny dog image or a maybe you wanted to show the exact, uh, place that you went to in Japan for that, uh, erotic massage that you got. Uh, you could put in a link to the website, perhaps, for example, and also a picture of the outside of the building or their logo or their brand or something like that. And in these new, new podcast apps, a lot of them will have this, and it will surface on the screen. So you can see and say, if you really like, you can still describe it if you want, but if you want, you can also just say it's on your screen as you speak. So there's yeah, there's some really cool stuff that's not related, particularly to value for value, just becoming a better podcaster. So uh, yeah, podcasting 2.0 for uh, for podcasters. Obviously people listening to this probably are going to be podcasters. So that that's a good one. James Cridland does it on on, um, Pod News Weekly and then, I mean, like, I'll plug my own show value for value if you want to know kind of the philosophy. And I in the second season, I spent basically the whole episode, I think 18 episodes, just looking at a whole bunch of individual shows and seeing how they did it. So. Oh, these people, uh, interesting that they've, uh, done it more at the start rather than at the end. All these people create a leaderboard. I took that from another show and was like, oh, that's a really great idea. I want to do that. So yeah, that's a whole selection there if you want to find out a bunch of them. [00:46:19]

[00:46:22] Speaker 2: Hey besties! Mopar boost has helped me reach so many new listeners for this podcast. Maybe even you. I am thrilled to share that podcast. Bestie now has 70,000 downloads and Mo Pod has definitely given me a boost in that department. What is Mo Pod? You may ask? Well, Mo Pods groundbreaking technology transforms your podcast into captivating display ads. These ads are then optimized and strategically placed across the web. Steering listeners right back to your podcast. It's an effective, targeted way to promote your show, and it's already trusted by industry giants like Condé Nast, iHeartMedia, and the HubSpot Podcast Network. And that's because it works. The Mo Pod isn't just for the big guys. The Pod Boost is perfect for indie podcasters like me and you. And there's been an exciting new wave of updates to Mo Pod Boost Self-serve that include the ability to generate impactful ad copy with the help of AI, and the implementation of sophisticated targeting options such as geo location, age, gender, and household income. Podcasters can now pull comprehensive campaign reports straight from the platform, delivering insights on audience demographics, devices, daily delivery, statistics, creative performance, and even granular geographic data. But Pod Boost has actually been my favorite paid advertising experiment to date. I have used it on all my shows and you can try it for just $100. Plus, if you're a bestie, you get 10% off with the link in the description. So try it out and let me know what you think. So we talked a little bit about booster grams and how, you know, some of the numbers have meanings and stuff. Explain. Because you can kind of use this as a strategy boosting, boosting other shows as a strategy to promote your own show. [00:48:16]

[00:48:17] Speaker 1: Correct. Yeah, yeah. Some people have labeled that advertising. So it's a it's kind of fun play on that. Once again, there's I suppose there's a little bit of etiquette with this as well. So I for example, whenever I boost in I've got my my handle set to Me and Models podcast. It's a subtle one. I could use my name clear, but I like that whenever I boost and people usually say at me and models podcast said that that that does. So it's just a, you know, it's a little getting of the name out there and you can do that. And if it becomes abused, then I'm sure the podcasters themselves will go, uh, unless you send in, you know, 10,000 or 100,000, I'm not going to read something to that, which is a pure ad, but it is a just a great strategy like you do with a lot of your shows, where you will have your part of the network, and then you have a highlighting of another show right at the start there. I see nothing wrong with saying, oh, you know, this topic was really interesting, or I just had this guest on related to what you were talking about. If you if people wanted to check out episode that data, I think that's great. And, uh, once again, it's it's like a value signal. If this is something that I'm willing to, to put some money up front to, to pay for. I think that's great. [00:49:36]

[00:49:37] Speaker 2: I mean, actually, does it help your discoverability because you're on these apps that are specifically for or geared towards V for V listeners. So, you know, it's easier for your audience, your intended audience, to discover you on these platforms, right? Yeah. [00:49:53]

[00:49:53] Speaker 1: For sure. So the some for example, the breeze app, it only surfaces shows which have a value tag in the RSS feed. So I don't think you've put up any of your shows at the moment. So if I went to the breeze app, I wouldn't be able to find any of your shows. They only have the 10,000 or so podcasts which, uh, value enabled in there. So that's just an example of like, okay, well, you know, here's an app that is exclusively for doing it via this model. One like fountain for example, has a really interesting feature where they do promotion. So if you go on to the home home screen on fountain, you can promote your show and you can promote a clip from your show. So a, you know, a 32nd snippet, you could promote an episode or I believe you could promote just the show itself. They change it up. So I'm not sure at this exact moment, but that's another great way of doing it. I've tried that, uh, a couple of times. And the brilliant thing is, when you're promoting to an audience who are already doing value for value whilst you're promoting the show on there, and you're kind of spending some money to do that, you're actually receiving money from people who are more likely to be sending money back to you. So if it was really great, if you put something really amazing out, you might be able to spend money and get that back directly. Uh, which is really cool. Very unlikely you're more likely to. You get maybe, I don't know, 10 to 30% back or something like that. But in terms of having an audience base, if you want to look at it in purely financial business terms, promoting your product to people who are going to have a much greater likelihood of returning value to you, that's a no brainer like that. You should be doing that. [00:51:44]

[00:51:44] Speaker 2: That's awesome. Yeah, I have to try that. Definitely. So I did try running promotions on fountain. There were some upsides, but it didn't work quite as well as I'd hoped. I think the issue for me is that it doesn't necessarily attract, and even more importantly, retain my ideal listener. But it's been an interesting experiment, and I'm definitely going to write about this for Paid Besties in the newsletter shortly, so stay tuned. And I just wanted to give you a quick preview. So I guess what's your big picture future facing thoughts on this? Like, do you think this is going to stay a niche thing? Or do you think this genuinely has the potential to become, you know, this widespread trend in podcasting? [00:52:30]

[00:52:31] Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I'm a bit of an idealist, so I hope but the stats so far are that it's growing and it's growing pretty quickly. So when when this first started off a year and a bit ago I think was the first boost, two grams were being sent. [00:52:46]

[00:52:47] Speaker 2: Oh really? [00:52:47]

[00:52:47] Speaker 1: It's maybe a year and a half. It's it's still it's relatively new. Uh, it's up to about 11,000 now. Something like that. And the, the chart for people of adopting it is, is definitely that parabolic hockey stick type one. So I personally think it's going. The beautiful thing about this is it's it's just another way of of monetizing. And it's a pretty it's not inconvenient. It's not super, super hard. Many of the podcasting hosts have this enabled as well. So if you are with blueberry or with RSS scone or RSS blue, there's a tab where you can fill out this stuff within your actual podcast host and that you're enabled. They'll put it in the feed for you. So there's already be accessed for hundreds of thousands of people to do that if they wanted to. And it's more just about education now and learning more about why this is not trying to lock you into a certain thing, because I'm sure you've you would have gotten many different podcast apps talking about, you know, where this new podcast app for monetizing we can do, you know, do ratings and reviews and whatnot, but it's just within their app. And that tends to not work well because people are everywhere. And right, there's no there's no point having ratings and reviews for an app which only 1000 or 10,000 people use. So I think it's growing and most hosts are adopting this. Most hosts have already some of these features, so blueberry has most of them. I most buzzsprout for a lot of my shows. They already have the chapters, transcripts and things like that. So it's just a matter of time to be honest, I think. [00:54:34]

[00:54:35] Speaker 2: Okay, cool. Well, I guess my final thing is I'm asking guests on the show to audit me, and you've become a little bit familiar with Private Parts Unknown. That's about sex and love around the world. I have another podcast called The Bleeders. It's about I. [00:54:52]

[00:54:52] Speaker 1: Listen to that as well. [00:54:53]

[00:54:53] Speaker 2: Yeah. And publishing. Oh, great. Cool. And then obviously you're on Podcast Bestie right now. So it can be in terms of V for V or just in general, like do you have any advice for things that you think I should do, could do better or should stop doing? [00:55:10]

[00:55:11] Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. Uh, just a question for you. Which, um, podcast host do you use? [00:55:15]

[00:55:15] Speaker 2: I use megaphone for private parts. Unknown because of the network. Um, I moved from Libsyn for that one. And then I'm on Spreaker for bleeders, and I just decided to host on Substack for podcast bestie since the newsletter is already there. [00:55:33]

[00:55:34] Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't think any of them would have the the V for V stuff in them. So if you want to do that. Yeah I would, I would either uh probably fountain for you if you, if you just wanted to do that show wise I think it shows a great you've obviously put a lot of time and effort into the production of them. Uh, it seems to be a pretty big focus of yours for the reviews and ratings. I'm curious as to why you asked for them in particular. [00:55:57]

[00:55:58] Speaker 2: You know what? I didn't used to put as much emphasis on that. But some of the shows that I listen to, I think do an artful job of like, almost in a way where you're making your V for V pitch of like getting their listeners to engage in that way. And I do like the communication and like, you know, not feeling like I. I'm going into the void. And so I've tried to, over the course of the last few months, gamify that. And like, you know, we're trying to reach a new goal. You know, we're trying to reach 250 on Apple Podcasts. Okay, great. We hit that. Now we're going for 275. And I have found the more I made that a game, the more response I got. And people like actually doing that. So I kind of feel like if I made the V for V ask alongside that, it could all be part of like my post show ask. [00:56:56]

[00:56:57] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah definitely. Yeah. Brilliant. So it sounds like you're not doing it for the, I suppose, real hard hitting business side of things, which is, from what I've heard, the only ways that ratings and reviews really make a difference is if you get a huge amount and like a really concentrated effort, and then that can perhaps boost you up on the charts. And so the the only other reason to do it is pretty much why you're doing it for that feedback, for that connection of, of not talking into the void. So yeah, this is where value for value is a great companion to that, just with the added benefit that you get a little bit of money from it. So yeah, which is great. I've got a story for you of, of how perhaps you can get more if you want. So yeah, when I first started off on podcasting, I yeah, I just wanted a lot of feedback and I wanted to make my show better. So what I was doing was I was going into Instagram and I was finding just a lot of different niche podcasts, usually smaller ones. I'd follow them that or be following all this, and so I, I ended up having this kind of full stack of, of podcasts as, as friends and whatnot, and what I would do as I would kind of go through one by one, and I'd usually listen to 2 or 3 a day. I kind of had time for this at that time, and I still kind of do, but I would listen to 1 or 2 episodes. I would leave them a rating and review. So once again, this May being me just going out of my way, providing value first, and then I would leave them a message on Instagram going, hey, you know, really enjoyed your show. I like this portion of it. I left you a rating review on on iTunes on Apple. Great work. Keep it up. Something like that. You know, really short and shot. I didn't have to particularly enjoy the show. It wasn't done in the you know, I like spreading the love. So even if it unless it was a really, really bad cherry, I would give them the, the full kind of like five ratings. And the amazing thing with this is people respond to that and they love that. So probably if I was looking at in a cynical way, I would say, oh, you know, I was I was just trying to, uh, get attention for myself. But it was this mix. I was doing it because I was getting suggestions and realizing, oh, you know, it's there's two of us on the podcast, me and my co-host. One, we should identify ourselves right at the start so people can know whose voice is whose, you know, that sort of thing. And I would say probably about 50% of the people I reached out to, uh, reached back and probably, I don't know, a good 80% of those would, uh, leave me a rating and review. So if you look on the Main Models podcast on iTunes, you'll see there's a full stack of reviews from people early on in 2020, maybe 2021 as well, where they had done the same thing, reach back out and maybe they listened to the show, or maybe they just left me a review. I'm not sure. So if you want more reviews, you can definitely do it. Do it like that. This is where it also highlights the problem with with podcasting. At the moment, there is not a great way of getting in touch with the person creating the podcast. Sure, they can provide a link to a website, an Instagram, a TikTok, a, you know, Facebook or Twitter or whatever. But once again, that's an extra 3 or 5 clicks of of your phone to get there, to find the account, to go out, you know, what's the name of that and whatnot. And hilariously so, I stopped doing this in 2020. A month ago, someone responded back on Instagram, was like, wow, I, I didn't see this message from you. It got put in the other category or something and they just randomly went there, you know? Thanks so much. So, so talk about, you know, speaking to the void. I send a message off in two years, two and a half years later, I get a message back saying, oh, thanks. So this is why, uh, podcasting 2.0 and value for value is so great because it's so intuitive. You do it in the app, it's one click, you write the message and then you hit send and it all magically works. And there's some ways where I can get these messages to come through via telegram, or I've linked it to a discord and so I can, you know, share this with my co-host, I can have this. And it's it's an amazing thing waking up in the morning and seeing like, oh, wow, someone sent in a bunch of sets. Or someone. Someone was listening to my podcast or they're listening right now. How cool is that? Yeah. No, it it's an amazing feeling. Yeah. [01:01:29]

[01:01:30] Speaker 2: I love that. I think that's like a really smart collaboration tactic. I'm going to start doing that more intentionally. Like I listen to these shows already. I think sending them a message and like taking the extra step of like bothering to review them or whatever, it's like we were talking about before. It's, you know, giving value before you're necessarily asking for it. And that's a good way to just build community in general. [01:02:00]

[01:02:00] Speaker 1: Uh, 100%. And people love it. People really appreciate that for all our tech and for all our communications and whatnot. It can be a lonely experience being on the internet. So yeah, it's it's really awesome when when a real human reaches out and provides something back and you don't just wake up to, you know, spam in your email. [01:02:20]

[01:02:21] Speaker 2: Uh, totally. That is a great tip for getting started on cross promotions at any budget. So please take that into 2024 and run with it, because that can take you very far. And if you want to get started on your own V for V journey, I highly recommend you claim your show on the fountain app at the very least. Fountain is one of the fastest growing podcast apps. And to hear more from Kyrin. [01:02:45]

[01:02:45] Speaker 1: If you enjoy listening to me, check out the Mere Mortals podcast. If you're really enjoy it. The the book reviews and I'd probably say the best for the audience. Listening right now would be to go to the value for value podcast, and in particular, probably the latest episode that you'll see right at the top. That was the one where I covered all the tips and tricks I learned from other podcasters and implemented on to the memories book reviews. So that's probably in terms of bang for your buck in terms of if you're a podcast, uh, wanting to know how to do this, how to ask ways you can gamify it and things like that, that's probably the best episode to to check out. [01:03:24]

[01:03:25] Speaker 2: Big thanks to Kyrin for more on this topic. Check out his value for value podcast and thank you for tuning in to podcast Bestie bestie. Make sure you check out the last episode with Angie Griffith on how to rebrand your podcast. And guess what? Since that episode aired, Angie actually rebranded her podcast again. So check out the latest version of her podcast called You Get What I'm Saying and podcast bestie is now on YouTube. Head on over to youtube.com slash at Podcast Bestie to subscribe. You can watch my interviews with James Cridland, Katie, her church, Gary aunt, and more. And podcast bestie has been getting some awesome reviews from the podcasting community on Apple Podcasts. I got one from Edward. A Haven's the third podcast. Bestie is the bestest. There's a lot of podcasts and podcasters out there who say they can help you, but Courtney and podcast Bestie are one of the few who do it right. She gets great guests, she asks great questions and really delves into what it takes to create, maintain, and build a successful podcast. Thank you Courtney. Uh thank you Edward. Edward, if you have a podcast, please hit me up and let me know the name of it so I can promote you on the next episode. And I want to collaborate with you, bestie, if you leave me a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and email it to me, or you include the name of your show in the review, I'll give you a free shout out on the show right here next episode. And what do you say we give this whole V for V thing a whirl? Huh? Besties. So if you get value from this show, send me a booster gram and I am going to read the comments on the next episode. So I will be keeping an eye on the fountain app. And if you send me some stats for streaming, or you send me a booster gram, I am going to give you a shout out for that. Plus, there's another easy way to get featured on the show. You can buy a sponsorship at podcast bestie.com/advertised. I have super affordable packages starting at just $25. And check out my other podcast for more of my audio creations. I have Private Parts Unknown, which is about love and sexuality around the world, and the bleeders about book writing and publishing. And you can follow me in between episodes at Courtney Kocak, that is coca K on Instagram and Twitter, and I send out lots of newsletter exclusives to my besties as well. Podcast bestie actually started as a newsletter, so make sure you're signed up for Podcast Bestie on Substack. That is podcast bestie.substack.com/welcome. Until next time, happy podcasting. Bye, bestie. [01:03:25]

TranscriptCourtney KocakTranscript, podcasting, Courtney Kocak, Podcast Bestie, Kyrin Down, V4V, Value4Value, monetization