The Art of Podcast Marketing with Devin Andrade from Tink Media

Podcast Bestie, the Podcast

Episode 3 Show Notes

Guest: Devin Andrade, podcast marketer at Tink Media and Pod Stack creator

Host: Courtney Kocak, Podcast Bestie founder

Hey Besties! I’ve got Devin Andrade on the podcast today. She’s from Tink Media—Lauren Passell’s company that crushes it on the podcasting marketing side—so we discuss the creative side of podcast promotion and marketing lessons she’s picked up from working at Tink, including a great cross-promo example. Devin also shares her top tip for indie podcasters trying to grow their shows, how to make your content more accessible, some of her favorite recent podcast discoveries, and more.

If you missed the last episode, check out From Globetrotting Travel Photographer to Daily Podcaster with 13 Million Downloads with Gary Arndt of Everything Everywhere Daily.

Thanks to Michael Castañeda for mixing and mastering this episode. Follow him on Twitter and Instagram @plasticaudio.

A big thanks to our BFF for sponsoring this episode:

  • mowPod is an effective, targeted way to promote your show. It's already trusted by industry giants like Conde Nast, iHeartMedia, and HubSpot Podcast Network, and that's because it works. But mowPod isn’t just for the big guys — mowPod Boost is perfect for indie podcasters. It’s actually been my favorite paid advertising experiment to date, and you can try it for just $100. Plus, if you are a Bestie, you get 10% off with this link: https://boost.mowpod.com/?referrer=podcastbestie. Try it, and let me know what you think!

If you want to sponsor a future newsletter AND episode, you can purchase your ad spot here.

I’ve also got a FREE promo opportunity for the Besties: Leave a five-star rating with a review on Apple Podcasts, email me a screenshot with your name and the name of your podcast, and you’ll get a free shout-out on the next episode.

Thank you to the following Besties for their reviews:

💸 Wanna advertise on Podcast Bestie? Here’s info about offerings and rates.

TRANSCRIPT (This is a rough AI-generated transcript for immediate accessibility, please excuse any mistakes.)

[00:00:03] Speaker 1: Hi, my name is Devin Andrade. I work at Tank Media and I write Pod Stack newsletter. [00:00:08][4.9]

[00:00:09] Speaker 2: Hey, podcast besties. Welcome back to the show dedicated to making your podcast the best it can be. I'm Courtney Kozak, your BFF in helping you grow and monetize your show. And we've got another bestie on the show today. We've got Devin Andrade, and she is from Tank Media, and they absolutely crush it on the podcast marketing side. So we discuss the creative side of podcast promotion and marketing lessons she's picked up for working it tank, including a really great cross promo example. Plus, Devin shares her top tips for indie podcasters trying to grow their shows how to make your content more accessible. Some of her favorite recent podcast discoveries and more. But first, let's get to know Devin's podcasting origin story. [00:00:56][46.7]

[00:00:58] Speaker 1: So before I actually got into podcasting, I was more just in digital content in general. I really liked video production, not so much like film, but just videos for the Internet and through the programs I went through in college. And then the job I got right after that, it was a lot of just digital media production and I started listening to podcasts a lot and I thought, this is another storytelling avenue that I want to explore. So I started producing podcasts for the college that I was working at and getting more and more into it. I did a little bit of teaching at the college for it, and then I started coming across the work that, like Lauren and Ariel were doing as far as like marketing and this other side of podcasting. And I realized, like, I love the creative side of podcasting, I love making podcasts, I love audio storytelling, but there's a lot of people that are really good at that, and there's a lot of shows that need support getting found by audiences. So maybe it makes more sense for me to switch my focus on helping those shows grow, helping them find their audiences, and then I can keep the creative stuff for little projects I want to do on the side. But I felt like marketing could be the way that I could help support podcasters in a bigger way than just becoming another producer. I think that would still be really fun to do, but I just I don't know all the stuff that I was learning just from listening to Learn and Arielle, I was like, This seems like it could be really fun and still connected to this thing that I love without being the only way I thought I could pursue it before. So that was kind of my path. [00:02:37][99.8]

[00:02:38] Speaker 2: Totally. That's so smart. I love that you took this other path and the way that Lauren and Arielle do it, It is creative. It is as creative as, like, making a podcast. And you get to do that sometimes in your job. I've just been listening to Pod at me. That's a cute show. So tell the visitors a little bit about that show and then how they can get involved and, you know, submit to be featured. [00:03:06][28.1]

[00:03:07] Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Pod at me is like one of the most fun things I get to do in my job, because Lauren had the idea to start a podcast hotline so that you could call in and get a podcast recommendation. We put a new show on there every weekday, and once we started it and once I started hearing the voicemails we were getting, they were making us all so happy to hear people talking about podcasts that they loved, that they were listening to. And I was like, These need to be heard. These need to be shared in some way. So I built out this script for it. I got into my closet recording booth and I was like, I'm just going to try this and just send it to Warren and see what she thinks. And then we sent it to the team. We're like, This is really fun. Let's go with it. And then as we've gotten more recordings, we've done more episodes. Kind of the thing we do. Once we get enough voicemails, we put out another episode. But honestly, I have so much fun. One, hearing people talk about podcasts they're listening to, even if they're doing self promo. I love that too, because hearing the creators talk about their shows is just as good. And I get to be I try to like channel this kind of cheesy radio personality. Like I pretend that it's a live radio show and it's so it's really not I don't want to spoil the magic, but that's like the persona I'm going for when I'm recording it. And I just I love the team for indulging that side. [00:04:28][80.7]

[00:04:31] Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah. You know what? When I was listening to it, there was a few that were self promo on there, but it is fun hearing them talk about it or even like Heidi went on there and was giving like a her PR perspective and it's like, yeah, she totally knows all the details about that show. Like she should be talking about pitching that show. So it is fun in that way too, So people can call in with recommendations or feature their own show or like you were saying at the end of this episode, like you could even call in and. Be like, I'm looking for this podcast. Yeah. [00:05:05][34.0]

[00:05:05] Speaker 1: Honestly, we will take. We love talking about podcast with anybody. And I think some people, when they hear about the show, they're maybe a little bit hesitant to call in because they think they're going to have to actually talk to somebody. [00:05:15][10.0]

[00:05:16] Speaker 2: Yeah, but. [00:05:16][0.3]

[00:05:17] Speaker 1: You don't have to. You'll just like hear our little message. That is whatever show we're talking about that day. And then you'll get the option to leave a message after the beep, just like a normal voicemail. And we do add the disclaimer that if you do leave a message, it might get included in the show. And so it's an easy way for people to like in their own time, in their own space, to talk about their show. And I would love if people call in and say, I'm looking for a show like this. What can you recommend? Because then it's going to make the Collins show even more interactive or we're going to have even more fun with it. So I hope we do kind of build up that relationship with our quote unquote callers. But yeah, I think the biggest thing is people getting past the idea that they're going to have to talk to some stranger because, like, none of us need to do that all the time. You just call and tell us what you're listening to. It's casual. [00:06:05][48.0]

[00:06:06] Speaker 2: People are so freaked out by phones these days. That's so funny. But yeah, no, you could call in, talk about your show, and then say what show you're looking for. You could do double duty with it if you wanted to. Besties. I'm just giving you a tip. [00:06:19][12.6]

[00:06:20] Speaker 1: Yes, we love it. [00:06:21][1.1]

[00:06:22] Speaker 2: So, besties. You can call 1844 pod at me to leave your message. And I recommend making yourself a little outline before you call in case you get flustered. And just to make sure you're hitting all of your main talking points. It is a really cute show and it's an excellent way to get a quick earned media win for your show. So, okay, like we said, what you guys do at Tank is very creative in terms of podcast marketing. So what have you learned about podcast marketing so far and what have been like your biggest lessons that have inspired you? [00:06:57][35.0]

[00:06:58] Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing that I come back to after all the different shows that I've worked on, all the different campaigns and clients, is that your audience contains more multitudes than you might think it does. So your marketing probably needs to contain multitudes as well. And that goes for the type of maybe other shows you're reaching out to, but also just where you're reaching out to promote your show. So what kind of shows are you partnering with or what kind of newsletters are you partnering with? How are you using social media? Not necessarily in a way to grow, but to engage either with your community or engage with your existing listeners. You know, like there's no silver bullet, there's no one path to growth in podcasting. But if you're open to trying a lot of things and seeing what works and seeing what doesn't and working with other podcasts, one makes your marketing more fun and makes you feel like you're part of something bigger than just your show. And like, those are listeners. Those are the people that you need to reach first, right? Turning somebody from a non listener to a listener is really hard to do, but if you can reach listeners, then that is your target audience, wherever they might be. So they might be in a podcast app, they might be reading a podcast newsletter, they might be listening to a podcast, and they could also just be reading some other kind of newsletter, especially a newsletter that tends to recommend content. They are used to receiving a recommendation and probably acting on that. So that right there is gold, especially if it has to do with the niche or subject matter of your show. [00:08:34][96.8]

[00:08:35] Speaker 2: As Devin mentioned, it's a lot easier to turn an existing podcast listener onto your show than a non listener, but thinks actually working on an initiative called Adopt a Listener and it is Adopt a Listener month right now. And the whole goal is to get more newbies into podcasting. And guess what? You can help. Do you know someone who has never listen to a podcast? It might sound bananas to you and me, but those people are out there and if we want the podcast industry to grow, we need to turn these non podcast listeners into podcast listeners. Tink Media thinks so too, and that's why this April they are launching Adopt a Listener. They are asking you to find someone who says Podcasts aren't my thing and give them a thoughtful recommendation, something that's going to get them hooked. Podcast Bestie is a proud supporter of Adopt a Listener. Go to Tink media eco slash adopt to sign up that is tink media dot CEO slash adopt to sign up, find resources and learn how you can get involved. There is a link in the episode description. Is there like an example that sticks out in your head of like a really good podcast, a podcast partnership or cross promo that you've seen. [00:09:51][75.1]

[00:09:51] Speaker 1: A really good cross promo. I mean, I really want to talk about a newsletter partnership that yeah, recently came across because this was an. Sample of just the content being such a good match. It was for a climate show called Climate Vision 2050, and they use fiction and they use nonfiction to tell the story of what the planet could look like in 2050. And so I was reaching out to climate newsletters, and there was one that uses a lot of art and poetry and writing to express what's happening to our climate. And as soon as they listened, they were like inspired to write poems based on the episodes and shared those in their newsletter. And for me, that is the biggest example of kind of thinking beyond where you think your podcast might fit because you're talking about the same thing. Clearly, there's alignment in the type of way you're speaking about this issue, and then for it to resonate that strongly with that other person, I like the whole thing. You write poetry? [00:10:59][68.1]

[00:11:00] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's amazing. [00:11:02][2.0]

[00:11:03] Speaker 1: The whole team was so excited by that because, like, that's how, you know, your show is hitting with your target audience and like, with other potential listeners. So like, that's one's like top of mind because I haven't pretty recently and I just like, I can't get over how powerful the reaction was for that. [00:11:19][16.0]

[00:11:20] Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. So given everything you've learned at your time at Tech, what's your best advice to indie podcasters trying to grow their shows? [00:11:28][8.9]

[00:11:30] Speaker 1: I think if you're in the indie space and you are really committed to growing your show, really become part of the podcasting space. So I think sometimes as a podcaster it can feel like the podcast is just your vehicle for delivering your content or your message. But if you want to grow, I think you have to understand a little bit more about that medium and that community and industry that exists around it, because that's how you're going to learn how to collaborate, how to harness it, what's really going on with the shows that are growing and what are they doing? Because any show at any size can grow if it's using all the same tactics that the bigger shows are using minus money. I know money could be the variable there, but the access, the access to collaboration and partnerships can exist no matter what, because there will always be shows that you could partner with and there will always be audiences that you haven't reached yet. So even if you feel like, Oh, this other show is too small or too different, there could be a listener, at least one in there that doesn't know your show yet that could be interested. So all of those options could have returns. The thing is, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And you just kind of have to respect that journey of it. And I think when you're partnering with more podcasts, they get it too. So you feel a little bit less like I'm the only one struggling here. I'm the only one caught up in this I can't grow. When you're working with other podcasts to grow, like we all get it. We're all in this together and we're all growing together. So I think that's the biggest thing. Like become part of the industry, learn from all these resources, and then you'll start trying things and learning how to grow your show totally. [00:13:23][113.6]

[00:13:24] Speaker 2: And like, you know, those bigger shows, yes, they have money which buys people to hold your hand through like feed drops and stuff like that. But really all you need, you know, you can reverse engineer it. You can go to an awesome wondery feed drop that you saw that you thought was really good and like, look at the transcripts for that and like, do the same thing. So that's, that's totally, I think, spot on. [00:13:51][27.0]

[00:13:51] Speaker 1: I know it can feel really overwhelming when you're first doing it, especially and you're right, the biggest thing that money will give you is resources to help do all of this. And we're trying to help support that effort at Tank because we're doing this thing right now on podcast marketing Magic, about 52 weeks of podcast growth. And we're trying to design that in a way that. We know how busy podcasters are and we know how overwhelming it could be to dedicate more time to growing your show. So what's one thing you could do every week that built up your marketing throughout the year so that you get that ball rolling without it being so overwhelming, without it costing you a lot of time or money? [00:14:30][38.4]

[00:14:30] Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Everyone should check that out. I want to tell you about our sponsor, Mo Pod. Mopar is a high powered way to promote your show that all the big networks are using seriously. It's already trusted by industry giants like Conde Nast, Iheartmedia and the HubSpot Podcast Network. And that's because it works. And it's not just for the big guys. I have found that Mopar Boost is perfect for indie podcasters and it's been my favorite paid advertising experiment to date. You know this if you are a paid subscriber for podcast bestie Mopar Boost Self-serve is a native programmatic advertising platform that puts your podcast episodes in front of targeted listeners wherever they happen to be on the web. And that's what I love about it, because if you're advertising on a podcast player, yes, you're reaching people who are interested in podcasts, but they might not be interested in your topic. And with mobile, you're reaching people that are definitely specifically targeted to be interested in what your show is about. So to me, it's been a better fit of listener and it's simple and super easy to get started. Seriously, it takes like 5 minutes. And not only that, but you can try it for just 100 bucks. You're going to see the bump in the first couple of days. Maybe you're trying to reach a download goal or you feel like you're podcasting into the void and you want to find some of those well targeted listeners that are really going to appreciate and engage with your show. If you're on a budget and you're interested in growing your show in a real way that you can like see, I think you're going to like this. And if you are a bestie, you get 10% off with the link in the description. So you are definitely going to want to check that out. 10% off link in the description. So you listen to just a shit ton of shows I'm sure, for work. So tell us about your favorite recent shows and what you're listening to these days. [00:16:25][115.1]

[00:16:26] Speaker 1: Oh, right now I feel like one show that has really stood out to me recently was Good Sport by Jody African because I love when a show, even if it's talking about something that I might not be super interested in, but it does a really good job of adding storytelling into the structure of the show. So I already kind of really enjoy sports, but the approach that Jodi is taking for it is that sports reflect a lot of our culture and our world and what's going on. And I love that kind of angle in a show. So I feel like I'm learning way more about the world than a specific sport. And it's one of those shows that I didn't expect to like that much. I knew I liked his work. Anyway, we like the topic, but it's really sticking out to me as I want to tell more people about it. [00:17:18][52.2]

[00:17:19] Speaker 2: Oh, I love that. Anything else? [00:17:21][1.9]

[00:17:22] Speaker 1: Oh gosh. I feel like there's probably so many. I always go back to not past it. I have a few of their episodes in my queue right now. I listen to a lot of movie podcasts about usually about movies I haven't even watched yet because I'm so slow at watching movies, but I love learning about them. So I've been listening to a lot of Hollywood gold recently, learning about Austin Powers. That movie was fascinating behind the scenes. [00:17:49][27.5]

[00:17:50] Speaker 2: Oh, I bet, Yeah. [00:17:51][1.0]

[00:17:51] Speaker 1: And then Vibe Check is my go to every week. They make me so happy. [00:17:56][4.5]

[00:17:57] Speaker 2: Oh, I haven't listened to Vibe Check. What is it? [00:17:59][2.1]

[00:17:59] Speaker 1: Oh, my goodness. Sam, Zach and Sade are like your best friends. And they're talking about culture. They're talking about news, so it can get really serious. But they bring the best energy to everything that they're talking about, and they have the best friendship. And they must be like this in real life because it feels like the most authentic version of themselves is coming across in the show to the point like any time I'm in a bad mood and if I put on that show, I immediately feel so much better no matter what. They just they really bring good vibes. I cannot get enough of that show. [00:18:35][36.2]

[00:18:36] Speaker 2: That is a strong endorsement. Okay. [00:18:38][1.6]

[00:18:39] Speaker 1: So I could go on all day. Sorry. [00:18:41][1.6]

[00:18:42] Speaker 2: I know you really good. So tell Besties about your newsletter because you have a whole newsletter recommending podcasts. [00:18:47][5.2]

[00:18:48] Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. I realize that I have too many podcast thoughts and I should probably be documenting them somewhere. So I started Pod Stack that's on Substack. And the idea is to celebrate great audio and to just help more people discover great audio. So it's to welcome new listeners, but also to celebrate the creators. I'm trying to do a bit of both as best I can without making it too overwhelming and still making it fun for me because I am doing so many podcast things every week. This is kind of my passion project for podcasts because I just I need to get it out there when I listen to something really good. So I've done a piece about Vibe check already and good sport actually. [00:19:27][38.9]

[00:19:27] Speaker 2: So yes. So sign up for pod stack. Yes, that is right. You should. Only sign up for Devin's newsletter pod stack. There is a link in the episode description and I have an exciting announcement. The show has 23 ratings on Apple Podcasts. 23 five star ratings. And we also got a few new reviews. So I want to take a second to shout out the BFFs who took the time to leave five star ratings and reviews. So first up, I want to shout out Kate Lavender, who has a show called Lizzie Borden Audio, the only show that recreates Lizzie Borden trial testimony from the beginning of the crime scene. Oh, okay. That strikes me as something I would like to listen to and probably will, because I have a minor Lizzie Borden obsession, and this sounds right up my alley, so maybe you want to join me. I got another review from E.F. Underscore, see Kade pod, and it's love, this pod exclamation point. I listen to a lot of podcasts and I love this one. I love Courtney's approach voice and her knowledge. Oh, I love that. I don't know who left this, but if it was, you hit me up and I will show you a proper on the next episode. But I really appreciate your review. And I also got a rating and review from Angie Griffith. Interesting fact about Angie is Angie is in the middle of a rebrand. She actually has just launched the new version of her show called Pod Fluence or Society. And she is going to be on podcast bestie telling us all about the rebrand. And I am so excited. So look forward to that and check out her show. So thank you besties for leaving those ratings and reviews. You can do it too, bestie. All you have to do is go to Apple podcast, leave a five star rating and review. Just say what you love about the show and you get a free shout out. You can just put your name and your podcast in the review or you can email me, just reply to the newsletter with a screenshot and I will shout you out on the episode. So that is basically a free earned media opportunity just for leaving a review twice in one episode. Incredible. And now back to my conversation with Devin. Okay, so I'm doing this thing and I'm asking everyone to audit me so I have private parts unknown about love and sexuality around the world. I have the bleeders. It's about book writing and publishing. You are on podcast Bestie right now. Is there anything that you see, you know, looking in where you're like, Oh, I think you should try this. I think you should do more of this. I think you should stop doing this. Do you have a little assignment for me? [00:22:25][178.0]

[00:22:26] Speaker 1: Oh, I think I'm honestly always very impressed with how good you've been about continually reminding people of your content because you put out a lot of good resources and it can be overwhelming for people, but you're really good about like reminding people about it in small chunks so that you talk about a newsletter maybe for a whole week because you take parts of it throughout the week to post about it. And I really, really like that you do that. And I think for all of that. The biggest thing that I'm looking at these days is making sure that all of that content is accessible. So. Things like. [00:23:07][40.8]

[00:23:07] Speaker 2: Alt. [00:23:07][0.0]

[00:23:08] Speaker 1: Text when you're sharing images and stuff like that. I know transcripts are really hard, but like welcoming in all different kinds of consumers for your content is something that I have learned a lot about over the past year. Through accessible podcasting, I actually teach a micro credential about it. Oh, really? So yeah. And so once you kind of realize all the barriers that could be out there for audiences that might really love your content, you can't help but try to improve those. It takes a lot of different steps sometimes, but every step you take, it gets you closer to it just being part of your workflow. So I would say maybe auditing a little bit for accessibility. And if anybody is ever viewing your content in any way, what are the barriers that might exist and how could you provide something so that they can consume the content in whatever way works for them? [00:23:59][51.2]

[00:24:00] Speaker 2: Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's like a lot to just produce the content. But I have been trying, you know, like on my website now I've gone in and I think I've done alt tags for like 90% of it, but it's been a whole process. Like I had to go in and literally for over 100 episodes for private parts, unknown adults. So like, you know, it took me like at least a week to get to that point. And I still have a few left, so I would love a few tips in that kind of space. And I'm curious your thoughts because like, I'm such a perfectionist, but I've gotten to the point where I'm like, I have to have a transcript out, even if it's not my perfect transcription right away. So like, even if it's Trint and it comes with a disclaimer that it's like not perfect, like I have to start doing that piece, is that, gosh, to put out a super rough transcript like that and like, what are ways that people can kind of get started on their accessibility journey? Because like you said, sometimes it can be a multi step process. [00:25:03][63.2]

[00:25:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, as far as providing a transcript, that is less than perfect. Everyone has their different thoughts on this. And I think if you are at least providing something, you are taking a step in the right direction and you at least have that content somewhere where you could go back to it and clean it up. So the fact that you have it already, you're like halfway there. You just need to tidy it up. I think that that is really helpful. And I think even just making sure the access to that is really, really straightforward because even for me, when I'm writing about a show or researching a show, a transcript is so helpful to have to make sure I'm quoting people right and making sure I'm getting the information correct. And sometimes it is so hard to just find where the show is providing that transcript. So that's also half the battle sometimes. And then as far as the general accessibility, I think the biggest thing is probably through any promotion you're doing on social media and stuff like that. So adding the alt text and just keeping in mind that alt text is supposed to be pretty short and concise. And if you find that you're posting something that is longer than that, then you need like a longer description and it's not necessarily alt text that you need, you just need to describe the image. But all text can be really straightforward. It's just thinking like, what does a person need to know in order to understand the context or get why this image is here or this piece of content is here. So I think understanding that can help. And even I'm learning more things about accessibility on social media for podcasts every day. And I love, love, love seeing podcast apps and hosting sites, adding more features to support the consumers and to support the creators, because I think that's also a huge, huge piece of it that hopefully we will get more support all around to make it easier for everybody. [00:27:04][119.5]

[00:27:05] Speaker 2: Well, this has been really great. Is there anything else you want to say to the besties before we wrap? [00:27:09][4.0]

[00:27:09] Speaker 1: You said this at the top of the show. I think like at ten, we really believe how creative marketing can be and we really do have so much fun with it. So always pay attention to what is making you pay attention to a promo, to something you see on social. What makes you click or makes you hit play? Pay attention to those behaviors because then you might learn something more about your audience. You'll get a little creative about how you can reach that audience. Like there's so much creativity in figuring out that puzzle and working with other podcasts. So I think just kind of try to change your mindset about what marketing is in podcasting because it's way more fun than it is in other industries. I don't know that for. [00:27:47][37.4]

[00:27:47] Speaker 2: A fact, but that's just how I feel about it. That's totally okay. Thanks so much for tuning in to podcast Bestie, and a big thanks to Devin. Make sure you call 1844 pod at me and leave a message. Let's get Devin back to work on the next episode. I would love it if. We left so many messages that they did an all best episode. So let's leave those messages. You've got marching orders, best years. And if you heard last week's episode, Gary Arndt recommended sprinkling in some shorter episodes to make it a lighter lift for listeners, especially people who are new to the show. So that's why I wanted to drop something under 30 minutes on the feed this week, so let me know what you think. Were you more likely to hit play and check out Gary's episode for way more generous advice from his journey to 13 million downloads for everything everywhere daily. And check out my other podcasts. Private Parts Unknown, which is about love and sexuality around the world, and the bleeders about book writing and publishing. For more of my audio creations, and you can follow me between episodes at Courtney Kozak, that's K, OCR, K on Instagram and Twitter. And I send out lots of newsletter exclusives to my Besties podcast. Bestie actually started as a newsletter. So of course, make sure you're signed up for podcast Bestie on Substack that is podcast bestie dot substack dotcom slash welcome. Until next time happy podcasting by besties. [00:27:47]

TranscriptCourtney KocakTranscript, podcasting, Courtney Kocak, Podcast Bestie, Devin Andrade, Tink Media, Adopt-A-Listener, podcast marketing, cross-promotion