Organic Growth Hack: Recurring Collaborations with Niche Podcasts with Aakshi Sinha of Tink Media
Podcast Bestie, the Podcast
Episode 7 Show Notes
Guest: Aakshi Sinha, Podcast Marketing Specialist at Tink Media
Host: Courtney Kocak, Podcast Bestie founder
Hey Besties! This episode is such a treat because I had the chance to chat with Aakshi Sinha, a Podcast Marketing Specialist from Tink Media, all the way from India. Connecting with people around the world is one of the many reasons I love podcasting!
Prepare to be inspired as we delve into Aakshi's podcasting origin story — exploring her gateway podcast, her desire to be a part of the podcasting community, and how she landed her job in the podcast industry. She also shares her love for creating curated playlists (Podcast Bestie playlist to come soon!), along with expert advice from her time at Tink, especially the importance of finding joy in podcast marketing for long-term sustainability and how to set up effective podcast collaborations, including promo swaps, guest swaps, and feed swaps.
Aakshi highlights the value of collaborating with smaller shows that have a niche audience, rather than solely focusing on larger shows with higher numbers. And I preach my cardinal rule for indie podcasters trying to engineer organic growth: recurring collaborations. Plus, the likely necessity of making strategic investments to propel podcast growth before achieving meaningful monetization.
So grab your headphones, Besties, and treat yourself to this fun and informative podcasting pep talk!
Connect with Aakshi @aaklovesaudio on Twitter.
If you missed the last episode, check out Podcast Marketing Is About Finding Your Podcast Besties with Lauren Passell of Tink Media + How to Get Featured on Apple Podcasts.
Thanks to Michael Castañeda for mixing and mastering this episode. Follow him on Twitter and Instagram @plasticaudio.
A big thanks to our BFFs for sponsoring this episode:
mowPod is an effective, targeted way to promote your show. It's already trusted by industry giants like Conde Nast, iHeartMedia, and HubSpot Podcast Network, and that's because it works. But mowPod isn’t just for the big guys — mowPod Boost is perfect for indie podcasters. It’s actually been my favorite paid advertising experiment to date, and you can try it for just $100. Plus, if you are a Bestie, you get 10% off with this link: https://boost.mowpod.com/?referrer=podcastbestie. Try it, and let me know what you think!
To all the women podcasters: Submit your news to Podcasting by the Moon & subscribe for FREE! You’ll join 1,000+ readers keeping up with women in podcasting news & recs each full moon (& more!).
Podcast strategist Eric Nuzum describes Skye Pillsbury’s The Squeeze as “an utterly fantastic addition to the journalism looking at podcasting.” Don’t miss a single issue; subscribe for free here.
Having many passions doesn't have to be overwhelming. Join Multi-Passionate Mastery for actionable tips on how to prioritize, focus, and succeed as a multi-passionate creative. Find Multi-Passionate Mastery on your favorite podcast app!
That Wasn't In My Textbook Podcast helps us uncover the things we always wished we learned from that boring, bulky textbook- From History of Taxes to Cannabis, it's the history you always wanted to know! Check it out!
If you want to sponsor a future newsletter AND episode, you can purchase your ad spot here.
I’ve also got a FREE promo opportunity for the Besties: Leave a five-star rating with a review on Apple Podcasts, email me a screenshot with your name and the name of your podcast, and you’ll get a free shout-out on the next episode.
Thank you to the following Besties for their reviews:
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TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:03] Courtney Kocak: Hey, Podcast Besties. Welcome back to the show dedicated to making your podcast the best it can be. I'm Courtney Kocak, you BFF in helping you grow and monetize your show. Last episode, we heard from the brilliant Lauren Purcell, the founder of Tink Media, a podcast marketing company that absolutely crushes it. And today we have another member of the Tink team all the way from India. [00:00:31]
[00:00:32] Aakshi Sinha: Hi, everyone. My name is Aakshi Sinha. I'm from India. I work at Tink and at Tink I am s Podcast Marketing Specialist — specialist is a weird term, but I do like all things related to podcast marketing and also helping, like helping people discover shows. That's another thing that we're trying to do more of at Tink. Like if a friend will ask me for like a music recommendation or like a podcast recommendation, I will make them a curated playlists. And recently I've been thinking about this a lot. Like, I love making playlists and I will like make sure each leads to the other super nicely. I would recommend like how to put the crossfade in if it's like a music playlist. So yeah, follow me on Spotify, I guess? I just... I love making playlists. [00:01:20]
[00:01:22] Courtney Kocak: Did I ask Aakshi to make us a Podcast Bestie playlist? Yes, of course I did. And I am going to share that with you in the next newsletter. In the meantime, she has got some podcast marketing tips that she is going to share with us today. But first, let's learn how she got started. [00:01:38]
[00:01:40] Courtney Kocak: So let's get basically your podcasting origin story first. What are the CliffsNotes of what you were doing before and then how you got started? [00:01:47]
[00:01:48] Aakshi Sinha: Yeah, absolutely. So I graduated from college in 2021. [00:01:52]
[00:01:54] Courtney Kocak: Oh, congratulations. [00:01:54]
[00:01:56] Aakshi Sinha: Yeah. So, like, pretty new to working in general. And I fell in love with the podcast through this podcast called The Shadows. [00:02:05]
[00:02:07] Courtney Kocak: Oh, yeah. Caitlin Priest. [00:02:08]
[00:02:09] Aakshi Sinha: Yes. So I listened to that and I was like, this medium is beautiful. And even though I was a history major, I was like, my capstone is going to be a podcast. I'm going to try this out. And I think it kind of just spiraled from there. After I graduated, I was so like I was like, I don't care about the role, I just want to be part of this community. And that's how I bumped into Arielle on one of the listservs and then found Lauren through her. And it kind of like one relationship led to another. And so now I'm working at Tink, and it's been one year since I've been working at Tink. [00:02:43]
[00:02:44] Courtney Kocak: Okay, So what's basically been your biggest— I mean, Tink is like amazing at podcast marketing. So what's been your biggest kind of podcast marketing lesson or takeaway so far from working at Tink? [00:02:56]
[00:02:56] Aakshi Sinha: I think specifically from working at it's that marketing is fun and it's going to be sustainable and you're going to be able to do it in the long term if you're having fun doing it. So I think that's something we do as a company and it's something we really try to like encourage with our clients as well. Like what would make you super excited to do this? [00:03:20]
[00:03:20] Courtney Kocak: I think that gets lost a lot because, you know, usually, especially indie podcasters are so concerned about the craft of making it itself. But then, you know, it's like, Oh my God, we're going to spend another that much time promoting it. Like, it just seems exhausting when you get to that point. But you're right. Like it can be fun and it can be creative and it can be this really cool collaborative process. So you and I actually did a promo swap. You reached out to me and arranged a promo swap through Tink. So explain kind of what you do at Tink like that and other things. [00:03:58]
[00:03:59] Aakshi Sinha: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things one of the many things I do is set up these promo swaps, but promo swaps is like one of the things we set up. So we set up like lots of different types of collaborations. And even a promo swap doesn't need to be a simple 30-second. It could be like you're reading a warning on another show or you're reading like the credits at the end. So we try to like brainstorm what those could look like. So sometimes it gets into content a little bit, but then there's guest swaps, like be a guest on each other's shows, or you pitch to podcast newsletters like yours. And yeah, basically get the word out there in the podcast community . [00:04:41]
[00:04:41] Courtney Kocak: Yeah. So what's your best advice from everything you've learned for indie podcasters in specific trying to grow their shows? [00:04:49]
[00:04:50] Aakshi Sinha: I think sometimes, especially when you're thinking about numbers, you really prioritize, want to prioritize collaborations with bigger shows that have bigger numbers. But I think with indie podcasters especially. Really small niche communities work much better in the long term. So even if you're working with an average size or small show, but it's a really good overlap, you know, their audience is going to love your show. It's all way more worth it to do five of those than like one giant show. But of course you can do both and mix it up. But I think both are super important. Yeah. [00:05:25]
[00:05:25] Courtney Kocak: Yeah. I love that. And I love the idea of like developing a relationship with another show where, you know, maybe you're collaborating quarterly or something and then you can kind of like stay top of mind for that show's listeners and vice versa. [00:05:41]
[00:05:42] Aakshi Sinha: Yeah. And makes the process super easy, too. Once you've already done it. [00:05:45]
[00:05:48] Courtney Kocak: This is so spot on. Besties. So let me just rewind and say I taught a workshop a couple of weeks ago and I did one-on-ones with some of my students and basically all of them were frustrated by their growth. They were about a year or so into their podcasting journey. They were eager to monetize, and my best advice to them was, first of all, just a piece of perspective. Podcasting is not a get rich quick scheme. It is a media company that you're trying to build and that is very hard, especially bootstrapping. So it is a slow grind and for me it has paid off tremendously in tangible and intangible ways that continue to influence my career. And today I make all of my money from writing and podcasting as well as teaching about those things. But I have been at this for a decade. And granted, the industry was a lot less developed when I first started out, but it took me about five years to really start making any sort of livable income from podcasting. And I was actually professionally producing then, so most of that income didn't come from my indie show at that time. So I first of all, just wanted to offer that perspective that like, you're not failing if you haven't achieved what you thought was success when you first started after a year. That is part of the process. That first year is really about making your content good, right, and learning how to do that. And then you can graduate into really growing and monetizing after you have a handle on how to make something that's engaging for people to listen to. That is the first step and that is an ongoing process as well. But then you can start to get into the growth and the monetization. Anyway, before I got into my nitty gritty show specific tips for these podcasters, I told them two things that I want to share with you today. First of all, the best way to grow organically is recurring collaborations. This is so important and actually kind of touched on this just a minute ago, but setting up the collaborations is just such a pain in the ass, to be frank. It stinks. It's a lot of work. It's emailing. Eventually these become real relationships and then it's fun, right? But at first it feels like you're pitching people and that can be hard, but growing these into recurring collaborations — say you do one, it goes pretty well; you think there's more opportunity with this show. I think there is, too, because first of all, you're both going to have some churn in your listenership. So there are new ears to be had on both sides, most likely. Every month, every episode, it is not exactly the same people who are listening to your show, even if your numbers are pretty much the same, you are reaching some new people each time, you are losing some people. And so on both sides, if you collaborate once and then you revisit that in two or four or six months, you are going to be reaching a slightly different audience, maybe quite a bit of a different audience depending on how the shows have grown. And so this is a great way to reach new people. I would start with maybe a promo swap. It's pretty low risk. It's pretty low lift. You can just swap scripts, you can each do a read and then you can kind of get a gauge on how that works. And maybe if it's, you know, not the biggest show, you're not going to see a huge bump. But maybe the process of working with them was pleasant and easy, right? That, to me, is a good candidate to revisit and do another collaboration with. I would actually go promo swap and then guest swap. So you each go on each other's podcast or maybe you record one episode and play it on each other's podcast and then do a feed swap. And in the feed swap you are going to call back to that previous episode that they guested on. So when you do the feed swap, you're not just promoting their show, which is hopefully their best piece of content — either they're most popular, the thing they're proudest of, the thing you love the most, this is all up for negotiation — but in that feed swap in your intro and or outro, you can also throwback to that episode that they guested on and promote that as well. So you're not just promoting their show, you're also promoting your show on the feed swap. Double duty, baby. And then you can follow that up with another promo swap. And again, you're always shouting back to these previous pieces of content that are already existing on your feed. So you're getting this kind of recurring benefit and your audiences are getting more and more familiar with the other show. There is a principle of marketing called the Rule of Seven, where basically customers need to see your brand at least seven times before they commit to a purchase decision. And we can apply that to podcasting, right? If you're advertising your show, probably other listeners are going to need to hear about it multiple times before they click and press play and listen to your show. And these recurring collaborations help with that because each time you do something, there are some listeners that have been there from the beginning that are becoming more and more familiar with their show, they're going to want to click over. I know this from my own experience. I'm like that, I'll hear about something. I'll be like, Oh yeah, that's that person from this. Oh, they did an episode about this. And finally on like the fourth or fifth or sixth or seventh time that I hear about them. I am willing to give it a listen and that I could potentially become a regular listener. So again, I just really want to emphasize with you the best way to grow organically, aka for free is these recurring collaborations. So take a tip from Lauren in the last episode and make podcast friends. It means you don't have to send another pitch email to someone cold. Yes, you can start another relationship in that way, but this relationship is already warm. You already have some built in trust. You've worked together. You know the deal with them, you kind of know what you're getting into. So that, I hope, is my biggest takeaway for you in this episode. Get started on some recurring collaborations. Make real friends in your niche or another show that is tonally similar to you. If you feel like your audiences with love each other and you like working with that person, that is a great candidate for an ongoing collaboration and it costs you nothing and it saves you time. And then my second big piece of advice for these podcasters, which, you know, may not be the most popular opinion, but you're probably going to have to invest some money in your show to grow it before you're really able to monetize it in a meaningful way. Yes, those collaborations really, really work. And if you hustle those, you could, you know, work your way up that way, but probably you're going to have to spend some money. I spent some money growing my newsletter audience for this podcast. You know, when I first started Podcast Bestie and still today I spend money promoting Podcast Bestie. And not only that, but I partnered with mowPod Boost as our season one sponsor, and that has helped me knock my goals out of the park and further monetize the show. So I'm really excited to share with you that as of the recording for this episode, this is episode number seven, so even before this episode was published, Podcast Bestie has already reached over 21,000 downloads. That is incredible. I've already doubled my season one goal and I also use mowPod on my other shows too. So there are lots of avenues for paid promotion for your show, mowPod is one of my faves. mowPod is an effective, targeted way to promote your show. It's already trusted by industry giants like Conde Nast, iHeartMedia and the HubSpot Podcast Network, and that's because it works. But mowPod isn't just for the big guys. Mo Pod Boost is perfect for indie podcasters like us. If you are a paid subscriber to Podcast Bestie, you already know it's been my favorite advertising experiment to date and you can try it for just $100. Plus, if you're a Bestie, you get 10% off with the links in the description. Here's the deal: we all work hard on our podcasts. We invest a lot of time and it's worth it to invest a little bit of money to help your audience find you. Wondery would literally never launch a show without throwing a little oompf behind it, right? I know most of us are bootstrapping here. But sometimes you got to throw down to reach those ideal listeners and give yourself a little boost. So try mowPod Boost for yourself and let me know what you think. Now back to my conversation with Aakshi. [00:15:16]
[00:15:18] Courtney Kocak: Okay, so I want you to audit me. I have three shows, you know, Private Parts Unknown. I have another podcast called The Bleeders; it's basically about book writing and publishing. And then Podcast Bestie, which you're on right now. So you can choose any part of the apparatus to audit or all whatever you want. But from your expert opinion, what could I be doing better or should I do? [00:15:47]
[00:15:49] Aakshi Sinha: Hmm. Okay. So the one they're most familiar with is Podcast Bestie. Because as I was getting into the industry, it was like my go to place and like, for me to be able to share it with like other people who were also new to the industry. And I think you're already do a lot of like a resources, like collecting a lot of resources like beyond just job opportunities. And I think sometimes like sharing like a list of other newsletters in the same space. Maybe like something more of that. You already have a bunch of collaborations with different newsletters, but they're always new ones popping up. [00:16:24]
[00:16:24] Courtney Kocak: Yeah. I should do a big roundup. [00:16:26]
[00:16:27] Aakshi Sinha: Yeah, like a roundup of sorts. Yes. That's a really good idea. Team! That's not what I was thinking, but that's great. [00:16:35]
[00:16:35] Courtney Kocak: No, that wasn't what you were thinking? Explain. [00:16:37]
[00:16:38] Aakshi Sinha: No, I was. I was thinking of, like, recommending, but, like, categories. But a roundup is like, a bigger version of that. That sounds great. Like doing monthly, yearly. [00:16:47]
[00:16:48] Courtney Kocak: Friendly newsletters of Podcast Bestie. [00:16:49]
[00:16:50] Aakshi Sinha: Yeah. Like a big shout-out. [00:16:52]
[00:16:53] Courtney Kocak: Yeah, I like that. So explain the categories, though. Maybe I should do what you're saying. [00:16:57]
[00:16:58] Aakshi Sinha: Yeah, you could do with like, the best friend themes would be like, this is the this friend group. This is the cool moms of podcast besties are like, if we're going to the party, this is what like I'm hanging out with these people. [00:17:10]
[00:17:11] Courtney Kocak: So you're saying spotlight kind of one at a time. [00:17:13]
[00:17:14] Aakshi Sinha: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:17:15]
[00:17:16] Courtney Kocak: Okay. I love that. Cool. Good tip. I love this trip and I am definitely going to do a big podcast newsletter round up soon. But today I want to turn you on to a podcast newsletter that I adore. Specifically for my femme Besties. It's by Alexandra Cohl and it's called Podcasting by the Moon. And not only is Alexandra a great podcast marketer herself, but she is a wonderful advocate for women in podcasting. So to all the women podcasters listening, make sure to submit your news to Podcasting by the Moon. I have been featured and you can submit and subscribe for free. You're going to join over a thousand readers keeping up with women in podcasting news and recommendations each full moon — that is so fun. And it's a great way to be featured, so I highly recommend you subscribe to Podcasting by the Moon. There is a link in the description for that. And I'm also obsessed with Skye Pillsbury's The Squeeze, which notable podcast strategist Eric Nuzum describes as "an utterly fantastic addition to the journalism looking at podcasting." I second that and seriously, Skye does such a fabulous job reporting on the industry for this newsletter, so you are not going to want to miss a single issue. You can also find the link for that in the episode description. And I don't just have newsletter recommendations for you, okay, There are a couple of podcasts I think you should check out too. So if you're listening, you probably wear a lot of hats in your career and there's a good chance you identify as a multi-hyphenate or a multi passionate. I definitely do. But guess what? Having many passions doesn't have to be overwhelming. Why? No, it's true. Join Multi-Passionate Mastery for actionable tips on how to prioritize, focus and succeed as a multi passionate creative. Find Multi-Passionate Mastery on your favorite podcast app. And another excellent show recommendation for you is That Wasn't In My Textbook Podcast, which helps us uncover the things we always wished we learned from those boring, bulky textbooks, right from the history of taxes to cannabis. It's the history you always wanted to know. It's hosted by Latoya Coleman, aka Toya from Harlem, aka the Anthony Bourdain of History. Listen, if you are a history buff or you just want to sound smarter at parties, you are definitely going to want to check out the That Wasn't In My Textbook Podcast. Okay, now back to the show. [00:19:53]
[00:19:55] Courtney Kocak: Okay. So I'm sure you listen to a ton of shows, so bring me up to speed. What are your favorite recent shows or what are you just listening to or loving in general these days? [00:20:04]
[00:20:05] Aakshi Sinha: Okay, so the ones that are really listened to when I'm having a really bad day is called Make Your Damn Bed Podcast. And it's just like it's like it's this comedian, I think. And she does like this five and it's seven minutes. They're very like self-help and encouraging, like affirmation type, like five-minute things. And I love it. I love it. So I listen to those in the morning sometimes. I've been a forever fan of Modern Love and The Heart, so those are always— any new episodes. I'm right there. And I think the the last one is The Chosen Family podcast. It's like these queer YouTubers and content creators that I followed before, but they like created this podcast where they like chat as if they're like on the dinner table and it's like your chosen queer family and they just like chat about stuff and it's the cutest thing. Yeah, so that's another one. [00:20:59]
[00:20:59] Courtney Kocak: Oh, that's really sweet. Did you ever listen to this is kind of in The Heart/Shadow's family, but did you ever listen to Appearances? [00:21:05]
[00:21:06] Aakshi Sinha: Yes. Gorgeous. [00:21:07]
[00:21:08] BOTH: Such a good show. [00:21:09]
[00:21:10] Courtney Kocak: I know. God, I said one day when I have enough time, I'm going to, like, commit to just doing a wacky, cool narrative show like that. That's like goals. Okay, So is there anything else you would like to share with the Besties before we wrap? [00:21:26]
[00:21:28] Aakshi Sinha: I love the idea of an audit and I feel like doing like a success. What success means to you Audit is like a podcast or something. Yeah, I would just like encourage people to do that more often. I think I saw this post like Arielle posted it today or yesterday of like three reasons why are making a podcast that doesn't have to do with numbers or downloads. And I think just reminding each other in yourself of that, it's like a great, great thing to think about. [00:21:56]
[00:21:57] Courtney Kocak: Thank you Aakshi for giving us such great podcast marketing inspiration today. Besties. You have your marching orders. You are supposed to get those recurring collaborations going, okay? And thank you for tuning in to Podcast Bestie, Bestie. Make sure you check out the latest episode with Lauren Passell about how to get featured on Apple Podcasts. That is such a coveted placement, and she broke it down in the last episode, so that's super helpful. And speaking of Apple Podcasts, I am thrilled that Podcast Bestie already has 33 ratings on Apple Podcasts, and I actually just got a new review, so I'm going to read that for you: Such a great resource. Five stars. Podcast Bestie is such a great resource for aspiring podcasters. I just started podcasting in the past year and it's been great to learn from someone who actually knows how this stuff works. Aww, thank you. This is from Raphael Titsworth-Morin, which is a hell of a name. I love it. And the name of the podcast is The Small Tech Podcast by EC, and that is where they talk about building small web and mobile apps. So if you are interested in automation or development or AI tools or product management for small web or mobile apps, this is the podcast for you. And if you want to leave me a five star rating and review and email it to me, I will give you a free shout-out on Podcast Bestie. And there is another great way to get featured on the show. You can buy a sponsorship. They are a steal right now. You just go to podcast bestie.com/advertise and I have super affordable packages starting at just $30. Again that is podcastbestie.com/advertise. And check out my other podcasts — I have Private Parts Unknown, which is about love and sexuality around the world, and The Bleeders, about book writing and publishing — for more of my audio creations. And you can follow me in between episodes at Courtney Kocak, that is KOCAK on Instagram and Twitter, and I send out lots of newsletter exclusives to my Besties, including an upcoming playlist from Aakshi. So of course, make sure you're signed up for Podcast Bestie on Substack That's podcast bestie.substack.com/welcome. Until next time, happy podcasting! Bye Bestie. [00:21:57]